Would you pay for a Tesla NACS retrofit?

[buzznwood]

Ford is falling behind in the EV space? How do you figure that? The way I see it, you currently have three companies that are producing EVs that people want, in decent numbers, and at prices that are still realistic for a good chunk of the population: Tesla; Kia/Hyundai; and Ford. Sure, there are some slick announcements from many companies, and you can even buy some of them, but the volume production is low and/or prices are quite high. Tesla is far and away #1 but Ford is definitely in the top three, at least in North America, and they are investing heavily into their EV production pipeline. And give credit where it's due, they are the first to get a fully electric pickup in production and onto the road. That's not something you attribute to a company that is falling behind.


If NACS offers a superior experience to CCS, then the best time to make the change is as soon as possible. Overall EV sales volumes are still relatively low, and the sooner the change is made, the less painful it will be, and for fewer people.

I don't think Ford has necessarily chosen anything wrong, here. I just wish we had more insight into what they feel the advantages of NACS are over CCS.

Using Your Kia/Hyundai as an example look at how many models are already using the E-GMP platform vs GE1, now while it can be argued that the GE1 was just a stop gap so there is not much point in having a lot of top hats, the GE2 based models are delayed. Add to that Ford going on about how the traditional 2 row BEV utility market will be very crowded soon and so they will focus on trucks and 3 rows, but also state that they don't want to go down the route of using large batteries hence the 350 miles 3-row talk not exactly talk of wanting to expand market share by sticking to small number of vehicles.

In two years time by the time the GE2 vehicles start to arrive who knows how many CCS charge stations will be out there along with CCS magic dock equipped superchargers, only time will tell but all the talk of switching to Tesla connector just comes across to me as classic Ford behavior rushing from one thing to the next and missing the finer details as they trample over them.

Now if more manufactures jump on board and switch then it may well be a great plan, but there is a lot more to an EV than the charge connector and if everyone else does the same then what incentive is there to get a Ford vs another make as having the connector is no longer a selling point.

The main concern I have with a switch to the Tesla connector is the current poor performance with charging existing 800v vehicles using the magic dock, now this should change with V4 units and if the rumors of the cyber truck being 800v turn out to be true then at some point the existing network of super chargers would all get upgraded to V4 but if they all come with a magic dock then what it the point of Ford switching connector other than change for changes sake.

As Kia/Hyundai have shown 800v is no longer the reserve of premium vehicles with 400v now pretty much the pushrods of the EV world. I would rather Ford was talking about GE2 and 800v and other improvements, a needless connector change isn't exactly confidence inspiring.

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[Kamuelaflyer]

And didn't Ford just dictate that their dealerships who will sell EVs need to install fast chargers?

Yes they did, up to 4 DCFC units as I recall. 4 CCS units, and many dealers were angry. Now those dealers get to be angry all over again.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

In two years time by the time the GE2 vehicles start to arrive who knows how many CCS charge stations will be out there along with CCS magic dock equipped superchargers, only time will tell but all the talk of switching to Tesla connector just comes across to me as classic Ford behavior rushing from one thing to the next and missing the finer details as they trample over them.

You sure? I've read an opinion which is that Tesla is one of the few charger network operators who consider vehicles that are towing. I don't live on the mainland and haven't seen any Supercharger stations or any other charging network stations there, but my understanding is that current charging stations are not accommodating to vehicles that are towing something. Ford's trucks have been their best-selling vehicles for some time, haven't they? If they're recognizing that customers demand charging solutions and are struggling to contribute to charging networks (see the fights with their dealership network about mandating charger installations if they want to sell EVs at all), going with a company that is accounting for it seems prescient. It would be brilliant, actually, especially if other companies are producing trucks with CCS ports. Maybe the Silverado EV has a higher rated range than the F-150 Lightning but what good is it if you can't pull up to a charging station that won't require unhooking what you're towing first?

As Kia/Hyundai have shown 800v is no longer the reserve of premium vehicles with 400v now pretty much the pushrods of the EV world. I would rather Ford was talking about GE2 and 800v and other improvements, a needless connector change isn't exactly confidence inspiring.

No disagreement with your overall sentiment other than to say that these things don't need to be mutually exclusive. Ford can work on a 800v architecture and change to NACS at the same time.

 

[Jim_I]

95% of my charging is done at home with a 40 Amp JuiceBox.

But I have to say that my EA experience in SE Florida has not been all that good. I have yet to be at a site where all of the usually four stations are functional. And sometimes I have to try more than one to get a charge to initiate.

So for me, I will be glad to have an adapter in the car as a backup. The last thing I want is to be low on a charge at an EA site that is not being cooperative with few options. Have the Tesla sites as a backup is always a good thing.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.....

The question I wonder about is: How will the Tesla owners treat us for "invading" their space?

Jim

 

[ChasingCoral]

You can do that now with a TeslaTap type adapter for L2 chargers.

It will be interesting to see if the NACS -> CCS1 adapter works on L1, L2, and DCFC. That would be really nice!

 

[ChasingCoral]

My guess is that a retrofit that places the port on the front right (or left rear) would require dropping the battery to the DC pins directly to the battery.

 

[kodiakng]

It will be interesting to see if the NACS -> CCS1 adapter works on L1, L2, and DCFC. That would be really nice!

it would require pretty significant contactors and switching electronics in the adapter since the NACS "standard" uses the same pins for both high amperage AC and DC. i think i'd prefer two simpler adapters.

 

[Jimrpa]

Actually in PA you pay $3 per year for each transponder. Still better than $12 a yr.

You sure about that? I just looked at all my transactions since January 2022 and do not have any $3 fees like that (or any fees like that - just credit card replenishments).

 

[RRM_GT]

You sure about that? I just looked at all my transactions since January 2022 and do not have any $3 fees like that (or any fees like that - just credit card replenishments).

That is what the PA Tpk website says. But who knows if they follow thru. Or if you are grandfathered.

 

[Jimrpa]

That is what the PA Tpk website says. But who knows if they follow thru. Or if you are grandfathered.

I looked further back in my transaction history and found a transaction on 12/23/2022 for “Annual Fee” in the amount of ($3.00)

 

[Auto Motive]

I'll be getting the adapter. Literally that is the point of adapters lol.

Exactly.

 

[Nikos]

95% of my charging is done at home with a 40 Amp JuiceBox.

But I have to say that my EA experience in SE Florida has not been all that good. I have yet to be at a site where all of the usually four stations are functional. And sometimes I have to try more than one to get a charge to initiate.

So for me, I will be glad to have an adapter in the car as a backup. The last thing I want is to be low on a charge at an EA site that is not being cooperative with few options. Have the Tesla sites as a backup is always a good thing.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.....

The question I wonder about is: How will the Tesla owners treat us for "invading" their space?

Jim

Hello Jim.
It is interesting that you mentioned that EA in Florida has the same issues throughout the SE. I was wondering what was going to be my charging experience if I travelled to the Keys for a dive trip.
Apparently, EA's network is the same.
Definitely having to use the Tesla network would be great.
As far as the Tesla folks feelings, I have found that won't be a major issue. The Tesla folks I have been talking to, the majority are kind and ask questions about my Ford EVs.
Now, some of them would not look or talk to anyone who doesn't drive a Tesla.
Elon will set them on a path of acceptance.
This partnership between Ford and Tesla, strengthens the Supercharging network, the NACS standard and extra revenue for Tesla.
Even if Ford had developed their own charging network thru their dealerships, (as they are trying right now), would not prohibit a Chevy owner from charging at those stations if they needed to do so.
So....it will be an experience to see how we will mingle with the Tesla folks.
Also remember, that this was and is Tesla's idea, which they been working with Ford to open their network, as long as the NACS was adapted. Tesla is the one who will built the adaptor and develop the code to incorporate the FordPass app into their system. We are all now waiting for Tesla to do this work, not Ford.
What I am worried about is that Elon and Tesla have not kept up or honor the timelines they promised. First part of 2024 may become the last part of 2024.
Judging by how late the Sybertruck is coming to production, we may be waiting for a while. Will see. Will find out soon.
Nothing surprises me any more while on the road using EA system.
Tomorrow, I will be trying the EV GO network from ShellRecharge in Winston Salem NC.
More on that, later.

 

[Jim_I]

Hello Jim.
It is interesting that you mentioned that EA in Florida has the same issues throughout the SE. I was wondering what was going to be my charging experience if I travelled to the Keys for a dive trip.
Apparently, EA's network is the same.

I take drives to the Keys for dive trips as well!.

I have used the EVgo station at the Florida Keys Outlet Center in Homestead, FL. Works, but only a 50 kWh station.

I have also used the EA station in Key Largo, FL. One station was down and as I recall, I did have to restart the session, but that worked.

There is another EA station in Key West, but I have not used that one.

There are two Tesla Supercharger stations in the Keys - Marathon and Big Pine Key. It would be nice to have access to those as a extra safety for charging!

Safe diving!!

Jim

 

[superdave80]

CCS is not living up to its reputation. Slow, slow charge rates out of " supposedly hyper fast stations

But this isn't really the 'fault' of CCS, it's the fault of the companies building/maintaining the equipment. Most of my CCS charging sessions charge at or near the full speed of my car. In fact, it's unusual when it doesn't. Tesla chargers are more reliable because Tesla has been doing this longer and has a more direct vested interest in having properly running chargers.

 

[voxel]

My guess is that a retrofit that places the port on the front right (or left rear) would require dropping the battery to the DC pins directly to the battery.

I don't think changing the connector is necessary. See how Tesla supports CCS and NACS on their EVs... the ECU supports both PowerLine and CAN-bus.

I seriously think folks who expect an "adapter" are delusional. It won't be cheap nor reliable. See all the firmware changes required for the expensive CCS/Tesla adapter before Tesla built a single ECU that could handle protocols and then shipped a dummy $300 plastic adapter with no chips.

https://a2zevshop.com/en-us/products/ccs1-ecu-upgrade-wire-model-3-y

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