The major weakness of the MME (and all non-Tesla EVs) -- reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist

[Tampamike]

Since you sold it, it's a moot point. But if you were a pilot and planned flying, and you found EV trips harder to plan, then you were doing something wrong.

We're retired, and enjoy tremendously taking our Mach-E on a trip. HOWEVER, that's because I do all the planning. If it was up to my wife, we'd take the ICE F-150 because she's not going to do planning like this.

Agree with all of the above (!), and that’s coming from a retired airline pilot. As far as the planning goes, foe me, it’s kind of like a new hobby - EV road-tripping. Something new to geek out on and, hey, I’ve got nothing but time so it doesn’t stress me out.

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[Billyk24]

I-76 and I-70. Plenty of chargers 50 to 100 miles apart. I just picked the ones that best fit my schedule. I do wish some hotels in Pittsburgh had L2 charging though. Would make the trip much nicer. I have to go there every few months for work.

Not so fast. All of those chargers are off the PA turnpike. Harrisburgh and Bedford would be main off ramp charging spots.

 

[Billyk24]

Yup. West Virginia, Montana, ...

If you're INFORMED, as you are, and as I am, you know this. It's not a surprise. It's information easily accessed.

Here's the plan prior to the plan that had to be submitted to the federal government, that showed adding charging in the UP. https://egle.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2c82b996255844b6967d3c46b072c0bd

https://mibiz.com/sections/energy/michigan-plans-110m-statewide-electric-vehicle-charging-network

I did see where the governors of Michigan, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin worked together to build an "electric route 66", i.e. the ability to drive all 1,100 miles of Lake Michigan's coastline. https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/2022/08/03/218021/

I would be upset if Michigan focused too much resource in the UP, because of the population density / need, at the beginning. But clearly as the plan proceeds, and the additional $2.5B becomes available, the UP needs more charging.

The state of Michigan has provided grants in the last two years for ev charging. All of them are 50 or 62.5kW rated. Some are partially installed awaiting months for parts as seen in Houghton. Some potential sites are stallng over demand charges utility companies want to impose. Some are broken for over a year as seen in Norway with no indications from the ownership to fix. It remains a mess.

 

[sotek2345]

Not so fast. All of those chargers are off the PA turnpike. Harrisburgh and Bedford would be main off ramp charging spots.

Not sure what you mean, but I made the drive with no issues.

 

[nvabill]

Since you sold it, it's a moot point. But if you were a pilot and planned flying, and you found EV trips harder to plan, then you were doing something wrong.

We're retired, and enjoy tremendously taking our Mach-E on a trip. HOWEVER, that's because I do all the planning. If it was up to my wife, we'd take the ICE F-150 because she's not going to do planning like this.

Right you are and I will definitely be in the market for an EV in the future. I’m kind of like your wife, I just want it to be a little easier which I’m sure it will become down the road.

 

[Blue highway]

This continues to baffle me. Gas stations utilize highly flammable fluid, pumps, gauges, sensors, etc. Yet the failure rate of any given gas pump seems far lower than an EV charger, which has practically no moving parts (aside from fans to draw heat away).

I continue to be puzzled at the high failure rate of EV chargers compared to traditional gas pumps. For something that's supposed to be new, with fewer moving pieces, these third-party EV charger providers sure are off to a lousy start.

yes, EV chargers need to be more reliable... however, they are at least two orders of magnitude more complicated than a gas pump.

Basically why I hope to never have to DCFC! For some reason it just bugs me to pay 4 times more for electricity (as in your example.)

I understand the sentiment, but that is like saying that the value of an MME is the $2600 in steel. Its the services around the raw material that will drive the costs.

Software, maintenance, local government fees, high capacity local electric service, help desk, equipment, etc are not free.

buckle in... for DCFC to be economically viable I expect DCFC rates to be ~70 cents per KWh in suburban places and ~a dollar in rural places... anyway that is what my crystal ball says... oh yeah, and the crickets from individual entrepreneurs that are not rushing to put these stations in should tell you something.

 

[AKgrampy]

yes, EV chargers need to be more reliable... however, they are at least two orders of magnitude more complicated than a gas pump.


I understand the sentiment, but that is like saying that the value of an MME is the $2600 in steel. Its the services around the raw material that will drive the costs.

Software, maintenance, local government fees, high capacity local electric service, help desk, equipment, etc are not free.

buckle in... for DCFC to be economically viable I expect DCFC rates to be ~70 cents per KWh in suburban places and ~a dollar in rural places... anyway that is what my crystal ball says... oh yeah, and the crickets from individual entrepreneurs that are not rushing to put these stations in should tell you something.

Maybe a bit different here in Fairbanks than lower 48. We have one DCFC in town that seems to be rarely used. Personally I just charge at home and do not need it. For now I have an Expedition I take when I drive the 350 miles to Anchorage on one tank of gas. We have a 100 mile section of highway with no electricity so a bit nervous to even attempt the drive in my Mach (especially as I have the old HVBJB and this section runs thru mountains) but next summer I plan to give it a go. Some new DCFC stations are in the works.

 

[Blue highway]

Maybe a bit different here in Fairbanks than lower 48. We have one DCFC in town that seems to be rarely used. Personally I just charge at home and do not need it. For now I have an Expedition I take when I drive the 350 miles to Anchorage on one tank of gas. We have a 100 mile section of highway with no electricity so a bit nervous to even attempt the drive in my Mach (especially as I have the old HVBJB and this section runs thru mountains) but next summer I plan to give it a go. Some new DCFC stations are in the works.

I have the old HVBJB as well. I think about that when I go through the mountains. That would be the worst possible place to have it fail on the road.

 

[kindofblue]

If you’re driving with battery alone, you’re needlessly hauling around the mass and weight of an ICE engine. You also have the added complexity of two very different system of providing power plus the additional maintenance that an ICE engine requires. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that for yourself.

Having had a 2015 and now a 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV, our experience is that the ICE engine is low maintenance. We get the oil changed every 2 years and that's been it.

 

[RickMachE]

Having had a 2015 and now a 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV, our experience is that the ICE engine is low maintenance. We get the oil changed every 2 years and that's been it.

OMG, OMG!!!! Every 2 years! Oil can't last that long! You're an idiot!

NOT MY VIEWPOINT, just posting what people say on forums.

In fact, my 2018 Fusion PHEV oil change interval was 2 years or 20,000 miles, whichever came first. I changed the oil once in the 3 years of ownership.



I just changed the oil in my 2013 F-150, roughly 19 months since the last change, but no where near the miles. Since I use Mobil-1, and I know that the age isn't impacting the oil's performance, I tend to go about 18 months or so between changes, unless I've done more driving. Since we got our Mach-Es, I've only put ~3,700 miles on the truck in 16 months.

 

[HuntingPudel]

I think that the difficulty factor in trip planning depends on the corridors one travels. I have taken a couple of trips that required planning and found that planning was a non-issue. The corridors I was planning on using are heavily traveled within California, so there was DCFC pretty much anywhere I felt like stopping. In other areas, this might be problematic. ??

 

[MarcCarno]

Eventually. They've been saying that's their plan for some years now, but there's rarely any timeframe stated. Or what method they'll use (adapters or installing actual CCS handles/cables).

There was recent story that at some California stations (like Baker), they plan to install Magic Docks. That's a built-in adapter that's part of the charger. But even on that the completion date was stated as 2024. Hopefully more will get done before then, but it's still fuzzy.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla...rger-locations-with-Magic-Docks.649468.0.html

In the U.K. there are now 158 Tesla Superchargers available to non-Tesla, so I can tell you they come with a dedicated CCS plug. The charge for non-members is 61pence (69 cents) per kWh. It’s an option, although given I can use other fast chargers for my routes at a cost of 38p (43c) it’s not one I’ve needed to use (although I’ve visited due to incorrigible curiosity

 

[MarcCarno]

The early adopter club

Firstly, I agree with the OP, a reliable charge network is the biggest issue.
Having said that, is it any different from the experience and history of petrol (gas) stations?

In the U.K. the first ‘petrol service station’ opened in 1919. It had one (manually operated) pump. 50 years later and the majority of stations in rural areas *still* used manual pumps, frequently with ‘max allowed’ fuel limits and always far more expensive than town & city stations.
On major motorways the first service station opened in 1958 and, 10 years later, that had only expanded to 12.

took time to grow the integrated, slick and fast service station culture we take for granted today. Arguably I’d say that the EV-charger scenario is moving far faster than it’s equivalent fuel-station history.

despite the small history lesson it is certainly true that it’s a hassle.

For me, that was a given and I accept that we BEV users are the early adopters.

I can hardly believe how quickly things have improved. I had my first PHEV (Vauxhall Ampera aka GM Volt) in 2012. I changed to a BMW 530e in 2018 and was amazed at the improvement in battery - I was getting 10miles (!) per charge more with a larger/heavier car!.

I made the change to BEV knowing it would require more focus on trip-planning, but prepared to accept that hassle to move forward - and let’s face it, once you experience the smoothness of acceleration of an MME all ICE cars are dinosaurs <grin>

 

[voxel]

There is a solution now

https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard

 

[dbsb3233]

There is a solution now

https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard

That might have worked 7 years ago. Not now. They waited too long to let others use it and everyone else ran with the other standard.

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