Will Ford Respond to revised 315mi range for Model Y?

mark360

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WLTP range of Mach E is promising 373 miles. Model 3 under same WLTP test gets 332 miles. Should be a 306-330 mile EPA car.
 

jksu

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super promising. an epa greater than the model Y's LR would be amazing, not only to beat tesla in specs but that means real world range probably closer to 300 at highway speeds and much better road trip car.

honestly, with a significantly larger battery, the mach-e really should get more range than the Y even if it's slightly heavier/less aero/less efficient.

this is getting exciting. makes me feel more comfortable potentially getting the standard range battery. if the range goes from previous 230 target to 260 with the 74kw battery (remember the Y has that size battery and gets epa 315) that would be awesome.

WLTP range of Mach E is promising 373 miles. Model 3 under same WLTP test gets 332 miles. Should be a 306-330 mile EPA car.
 

FredT

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honestly, with a significantly larger battery, the mach-e really should get more range than the Y even if it's slightly heavier/less aero/less efficient.
It should, but how's the Audi etron doing with a much bigger battery?
 

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WLTP range of Mach E is promising 373 miles. Model 3 under same WLTP test gets 332 miles. Should be a 306-330 mile EPA car.
I think you're getting a bit carried away.
WLTP range for the Jaguar I-PACE is like 290+ miles but EPA 234mi. With the recent range bump Jaguar released last month, I'd guess that RW range is about the EPA range now.

To avoid disappointment, anticipate Ford actually hitting the target range. Insert some mild optimism and a 5% bump would be nice. 10% would be on my wildly optimistic side. Maybe the California Route 1 Edition might get an extra 2-5% over the Premium RWD? Aero wheel covers make a measurable difference which would give the CA Rt. 1 a slight boost.
 


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but that means real world range probably closer to 300 at highway speeds and much better road trip car.
That would be great, but I'd also be very surprised. Depends on which speed one considers "highway speed" though. Huge difference in BEV efficiency between 55 MPH and 75 MPH.

And of course published range#'s also refer to completely full to completely empty. Real world limits from a 100% home charge are probably 90% of that, and on a road trip public charge about 70% of that (minus high speed losses).
 

timbop

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I feel like I must be missing something here.
You need more kool-aid :)

Nothing has really changed, other than tesla came out with higher than targeted numbers so there is hope ford does the same. that, and some tea-leaf reading and screenshot pixel peeping
 
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mark360

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I think you're getting a bit carried away.
WLTP range for the Jaguar I-PACE is like 290+ miles but EPA 234mi. With the recent range bump Jaguar released last month, I'd guess that RW range is about the EPA range now.

To avoid disappointment, anticipate Ford actually hitting the target range. Insert some mild optimism and a 5% bump would be nice. 10% would be on my wildly optimistic side. Maybe the California Route 1 Edition might get an extra 2-5% over the Premium RWD? Aero wheel covers make a measurable difference which would give the CA Rt. 1 a slight boost.
The Jaguar I-Pace has a worse drag Coef. I believe the WLTP is done at a slower speed than EPA, so the numbers don't correlate to very big and bulky SUV's. It also depends on how the gear ratio and motors are tuned.

The Mach E appears to be very a very efficient design. I would again say that WLTP range of 373 should translate to no more than 50-60 miles lost in EPA test. That would again put it at 303-330 miles EPA. Maybe the AWD version will hit the 300 miles EPA and the RWD will hit 315-330.

We can only speculate, but look at how the Model 3 did on WLTP testing. It lost only 20 miles. Agree with you on the efficient wheels
 

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The Jaguar I-Pace has a worse drag Coef. I believe the WLTP is done at a slower speed than EPA, so the numbers don't correlate to very big and bulky SUV's. It also depends on how the gear ratio and motors are tuned.

The Mach E appears to be very a very efficient design. I would again say that WLTP range of 373 should translate to no more than 50-60 miles lost in EPA test. That would again put it at 303-330 miles EPA. Maybe the AWD version will hit the 300 miles EPA and the RWD will hit 315-330.

We can only speculate, but look at how the Model 3 did on WLTP testing. It lost only 20 miles. Agree with you on the efficient wheels
I think the Cd is about the same for both the I-PACE and Mach-E. It's a bit of dark magic to me though since there's more to air resistance than just the Cd.

If you figure the WLTP is 15% optimistic compared to the EPA then you're looking at around 290mi and 320mi EPA range for the AWD and RWD variants, respectively. But again, we're looking at target numbers released to the public for purposes of the product unveiling rather than the production specs. Since Tesla upped the ante on range, I fully expect Ford to respond in some fashion. I'm happy to admit that 290mi of EPA range for the AWD would be awesome.
 

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The Jaguar I-Pace has a worse drag Coef. I believe the WLTP is done at a slower speed than EPA, so the numbers don't correlate to very big and bulky SUV's. It also depends on how the gear ratio and motors are tuned.

The Mach E appears to be very a very efficient design. I would again say that WLTP range of 373 should translate to no more than 50-60 miles lost in EPA test. That would again put it at 303-330 miles EPA. Maybe the AWD version will hit the 300 miles EPA and the RWD will hit 315-330.

We can only speculate, but look at how the Model 3 did on WLTP testing. It lost only 20 miles. Agree with you on the efficient wheels
I think there's way too much faith being put into both EPA and WLTP numbers, particularly when they are "targeted" numbers.
 

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EPA is all we really got and it's what the mfg can put on the Monroney sticker. How realistic the EPA number is a completely different story. Just look at the Porsche Taycan.

Regardless, Ford can do some things in the next few months to optimize efficiencies with the motors, BMS and environmental systems. My guess is we'll see a slight bump in EPA range estimates. Furthermore, there's marginal gains to be made after we've been driving the car around for awhile as Ford learns more about the vehicle's performance over time.
 

FredT

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EPA is all we really got and it's what the mfg can put on the Monroney sticker. How realistic the EPA number is a completely different story. Just look at the Porsche Taycan.

Regardless, Ford can do some things in the next few months to optimize efficiencies with the motors, BMS and environmental systems. My guess is we'll see a slight bump in EPA range estimates. Furthermore, there's marginal gains to be made after we've been driving the car around for awhile as Ford learns more about the vehicle's performance over time.
I hope you're right.
 

mark360

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I think the Cd is about the same for both the I-PACE and Mach-E. It's a bit of dark magic to me though since there's more to air resistance than just the Cd.

If you figure the WLTP is 15% optimistic compared to the EPA then you're looking at around 290mi and 320mi EPA range for the AWD and RWD variants, respectively. But again, we're looking at target numbers released to the public for purposes of the product unveiling rather than the production specs. Since Tesla upped the ante on range, I fully expect Ford to respond in some fashion. I'm happy to admit that 290mi of EPA range for the AWD would be awesome.
It has been stated the Drag Coef of the Mach E is below .3. The Model 3 is .23. So what do we know?

If we assume the max drag of .29 in the Mach e that would put about a 26% higher drag than the Model 3 so we should see 26% worse range at high speeds. That is worse case. Conventional SUV's have a drag Coef of .35-.45.

We also know the I-Pace has a drag coef of .29, which makes sense when you look at the front grille in the design. The Audi E-Tron is .28.

If I were a betting man I would say the Mach E will sit around .26 drag Coef, or 13-15% over the model 3. The Model X is .25.

The battery is 25% larger in the Mach E, so assuming worse drag rating at MINIMUM we should see 300 mile EPA range. If we are on the good side of the drag, we should see 330 miles EPA. Again I say 300-330 EPA range.

Tesla has more energy density batteries than the Mach E and has a more efficient Dual motor setup, but the 100kw battery still has 100kw in it and if they can translate that battery on an efficient body they will see very good range.

Again, I love pointing out that the Model 3 got 20 miles less EPA vs WLTP (330 WLTP range). Why is that? The Mach E is promising 373 WLTP range, the highest of all EV's so far in class.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Will Ford Respond to revised 315mi range for Model Y? 2020-jaguar-i-pace-mmp-1-1579199935


Ford Mustang Mach-E Will Ford Respond to revised 315mi range for Model Y? 2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-220-1574000540
 
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mark360

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"America’s EPA cycle says the Long Range Model S and X will now do 370 and 325 miles respectively. However it remains to be seen how efficient the updated cars are on Europe’s WLTP cycle. For a bit of context, the Jaguar I-Pace has a WLTP range of 298 miles, and a EPA range of 234 miles. The Audi e-Tron has a WLTP range of 248 miles, and a EPA range of just 204 miles. "

I-Pace lost 64 miles or 21% to EPA (.29 drag coef)
E-Tron lost 44 miles or 18% to EPA (.28 drag coef)
Model X lost 20 miles or 6% to EPA (.25 drag coef)

What do we know? We shouldn't lose more than 64 miles, and at least lose 20 miles. That puts us in a range of 309-353 miles EPA.
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