Will Ford Respond to revised 315mi range for Model Y?

FredT

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Again, I love pointing out that the Model 3 got 20 miles less EPA vs WLTP (330 WLTP range). Why is that? The Mach E is promising 373 WLTP range, the highest of all EV's so far in class.
Shouldn't you be saying "targeting"?
 

dbsb3233

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I believe the WLTP is done at a slower speed than EPA, so the numbers don't correlate to very big and bulky SUV's.
Probably true (in order to produce such high-side range numbers). But it would also be truly hard to go much lower than the already ridiculously low speeds EPA uses...

The "highway" program, on the other hand, is created to emulate rural and interstate freeway driving with a warmed-up engine, making no stops (both of which ensure maximum fuel economy). The vehicle is driven for 10 miles over a period of 12.5 minutes with an average speed of 48 mph and a top speed of 60 mph.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-economy/28004-epa-fuel-economy-explained1.htm

An average of 48 and a top speed of 60 for highway driving?!? Ridiculous. Should be more like an average of 65-70 with top speeds of 75-80. That would actually tell us something.

How many people are really going to take a road trip at 48 MPH in the US? I know some do (when there's not an interstate en route), but most people do their road trips on interstates, at a minimum of 65 and most likely 70-75. Sometimes 80.

If they want to give us a far more useful "highway" range number for road trips, make it at least 70 MPH, with climate control on.
 

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Probably true (in order to produce such high-side range numbers). But it would also be truly hard to go much lower than the already ridiculously low speeds EPA uses...

The "highway" program, on the other hand, is created to emulate rural and interstate freeway driving with a warmed-up engine, making no stops (both of which ensure maximum fuel economy). The vehicle is driven for 10 miles over a period of 12.5 minutes with an average speed of 48 mph and a top speed of 60 mph.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-economy/28004-epa-fuel-economy-explained1.htm

An average of 48 and a top speed of 60 for highway driving?!? Ridiculous. Should be more like an average of 65-70 with top speeds of 75-80. That would actually tell us something.

How many people are really going to take a road trip at 48 MPH in the US? I know some do (when there's not an interstate en route), but most people do their road trips on interstates, at a minimum of 65 and most likely 70-75. Sometimes 80.

If they want to give us a far more useful "highway" range number for road trips, make it at least 70 MPH, with climate control on.
I’ve found that the EPA estimates come very close to my own MPG observations. The EPA does test up to 80 MPH. Here is a quote from the EPAs web site regarding their testing procedures. https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P100IENB.PDF?Dockey=P100IENB.PDF

4. I heard that the top speed in EPA’s highway test is 60 mph. Since everyone knows that people drive much faster, why should I believe EPA’s highway (and combined) mpg estimates?

Vehicles are tested at a top speed of 80 mph in order to calculate the highway mpg estimates.
EPA utilizes fve test cycles to represent real-world driving conditions. While it’s true that the test cycle historically labeled as the “highway” test has a top speed of 60 mph, this test is currently meant to represent driving on lower speed highways as well as rural and suburban driving. EPA’s highway mpg estimates are primarily derived from a separate “high speed” test cycle, which has a top speed of 80 mph. The remaining three tests are designed to simulate stop-and-go city driving, high air conditioning use, and driving in cold temperatures. For more information on the fve test cycles and how EPA calculates its mpg estimates, go to epa.gov/fueleconomy.
 

dbsb3233

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I’ve found that the EPA estimates come very close to my own MPG observations. The EPA does test up to 80 MPH. Here is a quote from the EPAs web site regarding their testing procedures. https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P100IENB.PDF?Dockey=P100IENB.PDF

4. I heard that the top speed in EPA’s highway test is 60 mph. Since everyone knows that people drive much faster, why should I believe EPA’s highway (and combined) mpg estimates?

Vehicles are tested at a top speed of 80 mph in order to calculate the highway mpg estimates.
EPA utilizes fve test cycles to represent real-world driving conditions. While it’s true that the test cycle historically labeled as the “highway” test has a top speed of 60 mph, this test is currently meant to represent driving on lower speed highways as well as rural and suburban driving. EPA’s highway mpg estimates are primarily derived from a separate “high speed” test cycle, which has a top speed of 80 mph. The remaining three tests are designed to simulate stop-and-go city driving, high air conditioning use, and driving in cold temperatures. For more information on the fve test cycles and how EPA calculates its mpg estimates, go to epa.gov/fueleconomy.
That just seems to muddy it even further. Says they do 5 tests but it doesn't really say how that translates to the numbers we (other than supposedly the one higher speed test for the highway).

I agree that they seem pretty close for ICE vehicles. They don't tend to have nearly as much variance as BEVs. Plus the MPG doesn't matter nearly as much, because gas stations are everywhere and only take 3 minutes to refuel.

BEVs take FAR longer to refuel, which is a huge reason why range matters so much more for BEVs.

Plus, we only get one "range" number for BEVs. Not 2, or 3, or 5 for different driving speeds and conditions. That's the real problem. Range on the ER AWD Mach-e, for instance, is expected to be "270". But in the real world it's probably gonna vary from something like 180 (steady 75 MPH with climate control on) to 330 (slow speed city with no climate control). HUGE variance. Worse yet, the one the really matters is the first one, since road trips are where range really matters. Most slow speed city driving will be done with easy overnight home charging.
 

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it’d be great if the epa could provide city and highway range rates. that’d be actually useful. and highway being at least 65-75mph
 

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For the records - Long Range Tesla 3 managed 250 miles from full to totally empty battery here in Norway . Mach E will do more with a larger battery . BEV is all about weight - drag- wheels and net use of battery what ever name on the car producer .
 

dbsb3233

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For the records - Long Range Tesla 3 managed 250 miles from full to totally empty battery here in Norway . Mach E will do more with a larger battery . BEV is all about weight - drag- wheels and net use of battery what ever name on the car producer .
But that larger battery also weighs more. As does the Mach-e in general. Roughly 800 pounds more than the Model 3.

https://www.motor1.com/news/398837/mustang-mach-e-weight/
 

dbsb3233

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Yep. And 4072 for the LR AWD Model 3. 848 lbs less.

Where did you get those exact numbers from? Haven't see them detailed for each of the 4 Mach-e trims like that.
 

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More efficient dual motor setup? What data and information supports this statement?
 

Billyk24

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26% worse drag does not mean or equal 26% less range. The math is off on this.
 

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Second this... What's the car wash issue?
I would gather this is for a moving track car wash that pulls your car when you are in neutral?

Based on looking at the controls of the Teala, it is not obvious how to get it into neutral. You have to read the instruction or be told how to engage it.

This is one of the user control limitations of their design, it lacks ergonomics.
 

timbop

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I would gather this is for a moving track car wash that pulls your car when you are in neutral?

Based on looking at the controls of the Teala, it is not obvious how to get it into neutral. You have to read the instruction or be told how to engage it.

This is one of the user control limitations of their design, it lacks ergonomics.
I think the car wash issue being referred to is a water leak that is prevalent in certain car washes that shoot water from a particular direction of pressure.
 
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