Do you think it’s likely that the 5 second acceleration limit will change?

[buzznwood]

No, it requires a new battery pack (bigger bus bars) and maybe new wiring and new power electronics. I agree it is unlikely, but that could be done for the GTs on the current platform. Prices would go up though.

What won't put prices up would be for Ford to state the limits clearly in the marketing of the product. It is what it is, so own it don't hide behind it like they have done all this time.

The next gen mach-e GT/GTPE could well fix all these issues but it going to be once bitten and twice shy for a lot of existing owners the ones Ford would normal be expecting to be upgrading and getting in orders early but how many of those owners that pre ordered the GT/GTPE for its performance would now be willing to do the same again with the next iteration.

Sponsored

 

[Mach1E]

The contactors that are installed are spec'd from the manufacturer for a 5 second current limit at the levels of the GTPE. Unless the manufacturer updates the spec or a new contractor is installed this limit will be present permanently.

Source?

And again, zero GTs have messed up their contractors from acceleration.

If they’re spec’d to handle 5 seconds with zero failures. They’re spec’d to handle more.

How much more? Unless an aftermarket tuner gets brave we may never find out.

I do miss the days of finding out how much power the “stock parts” can handle when modifying a car.

 

[ohmslaw]

I was recently shopping for contactors; thought it was the Tyco EV200 datasheet that I was looking at that called out burst current limits; it must have been another I was thinking.

However, the datasheet does call out a max 500A continuous current; with a "call manufacturer" for higher current carrying capacities. So there might be some headroom there.

So it may not be the 5 second limit; but the contactors definitely can't carry peak power continuously in the GT.

 

[Mach1E]

I was recently shopping for contactors; thought it was the Tyco EV200 datasheet that I was looking at that called out burst current limits; it must have been another I was thinking.

However, the datasheet does call out a max 500A continuous current; with a "call manufacturer" for higher current carrying capacities. So there might be some headroom there.

So it may not be the 5 second limit; but the contactors definitely can't carry peak power continuously in the GT.

We don’t need it continuously.

Just for the 15 seconds it would take to hit 124 mph.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

??‍

 

[ohmslaw]

All I can say is I highly doubt the battery cells are the 5 second limit. Similar pouch cells in a Pacifica Hybrid are rated at 200 amps continuous (up to 800 burst) in a 1p configuration and at a capacity per cell that is 42Ah. Meanwhile the Mach E cells are in a 3p or 4p configuration and a capacity of approx 72Ah per cell.

Same manufacturer, similar chemistry and much more capacity in the Mach E. I wouldn't be surprised if the cells themselves couldn't push 1000a continuous.

That being said, wire/busbar size, cooling capacity etc all play into real output capability. I think the cells have a lot more to give in this car, the parts around it not so much.

 

[silverelan]

That being said, wire/busbar size, cooling capacity etc all play into real output capability. I think the cells have a lot more to give in this car, the parts around it not so much.

The Mach-E supposedly uses the same cells from the same Polish LG factory that makes the 2021-22 ID4 battery packs. Just from a charging perspective we know that those VW packs can handle more continuous power than the MME as the ID can take 135kW peak and 5-80% in 29 minutes.

This suggests to me that Ford goofed on all the high-voltage connecting bits in the architecture.

 

[Bueller]

Really? Do you honestly not understand why people who buy a fast car want it to be fast or faster?

Making daily driven street cars faster is a multi billion dollar industry.

That said, many of us do take our street cars to the track.

You may disagree, which is fine, most people don’t want nor need a car that’s fast. But I don’t get how you don’t get that some people do. Fast cars are fun.

You don’t have to like roller coasters. But you should at least “get” that some people do.

Sorry, you’re a fringe case. You’re in the small minority. The vast majority of people who have an ME will never encounter the five second issue for exactly the reasons I listed out earlier.

I get that you are not happy, and I get why. But, nothing’s going to change. Perhaps future models will not have the issue, but I doubt Ford spends any time worrying about the five second issue for current or previous models. There’s no significant demand for them to do so.

 

[HuntingPudel]

There seems to be a myth that the 5 second limit is because of the HVBJB. It is not the HVBJB was under-spec’s for every trim level. The 5 second limit is due mostly to the bus bars, the power handling cables, and the power handling electronics. Ford didn’t think the HVBJB would be an issue because they had so many other components that couldn’t handle the beans. Unfortunately, the part spec’s for each trim level was suspect and couldn’t even handle 5 seconds for the lifetime of the car. Remember, the 5 second limit is in the GT and GT-PE only. HVBJBs have failed in all trims. ??

 

[Mach1E]

Sorry, you’re a fringe case. You’re in the small minority. The vast majority of people who have an ME will never encounter the five second issue for exactly the reasons I listed out earlier.

I get that you are not happy, and I get why. But, nothing’s going to change. Perhaps future models will not have the issue, but I doubt Ford spends any time worrying about the five second issue for current or previous models. There’s no significant demand for them to do so.

Sigh….. in the post you quoted, I said “most people don’t want nor need a car that’s fast.”

I get it.

But of the people who bought the GT or GTPE (especially in 2021), it’s not rare that people are frustrated with the 5 second limit. Seems more are than aren’t (based on posts here).

If you want to better understand the frustration, watch this video of how acceleration slows to a crawl (like minivan slow) when you push it hard.

Link:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...2023-mach-e-gt-driving-characteristics.26714/

 

[HuntingPudel]

Sorry, you’re a fringe case. You’re in the small minority. The vast majority of people who have an ME will never encounter the five second issue for exactly the reasons I listed out earlier.

I get that you are not happy, and I get why. But, nothing’s going to change. Perhaps future models will not have the issue, but I doubt Ford spends any time worrying about the five second issue for current or previous models. There’s no significant demand for them to do so.

It's not that there's no demand for Ford to correct the issue. A majority of 2021 GT and GT-PE owners seem to want it gone. Ford bamboozled the early reservations and 2021 orders into thinking the car was track ready by publishing videos of an engineer taking the car on the track and beating on it with a journalist. Nowhere did they say that the car would only have power available for 5 seconds. Their marketing slicks never mention anything about a performance limiter. They do boast about a 3.5 0-60 time for the GT-PE. After the limitation was exposed there was uproar and Ford kept silent. ??

You are right that there's no significant reason for Ford to do anything about the limitation. They never actually lied about it. They just omitted stating anything about it. Every GT and GT-PE of the current design will have the 5 second limit, period. It's a flaw in the design of the power handling for the Gen1 Mach-e. We do not know if this will be fixed in the Gen2 MME. I will definitely not be purchasing a Gen2 car if this issue exists in it (or if I'm forced to buy one with a glass roof). ?‍?

 

[BigMach-E]

It's not that there's no demand for Ford to correct the issue. A majority of 2021 GT and GT-PE owners seem to want it gone. Ford bamboozled the early reservations and 2021 orders into thinking the car was track ready by publishing videos of an engineer taking the car on the track and beating on it with a journalist. Nowhere did they say that the car would only have power available for 5 seconds. Their marketing slicks never mention anything about a performance limiter. They do boast about a 3.5 0-60 time for the GT-PE. After the limitation was exposed there was uproar and Ford kept silent. ??

You are right that there's no significant reason for Ford to do anything about the limitation. They never actually lied about it. They just omitted stating anything about it. Every GT and GT-PE of the current design will have the 5 second limit, period. It's a flaw in the design of the power handling for the Gen1 Mach-e. We do not know if this will be fixed in the Gen2 MME. I will definitely not be purchasing a Gen2 car if this issue exists in it (or if I'm forced to buy one with a glass roof). ?‍?

I’ll take it a step further. I won’t buy a Gen 2 car new regardless because the Gen 1 has this issue, Ford doesn’t care to address it, and the HVJB fiasco which has been handled so poorly (both by Ford and their attendant dealerships). Is the GTPE great fun? Sure. Is it really good for normal daily driving? Yes. But it could have been just an absolute killer with 2-3 seconds more full power.

 

[BigMach-E]

Sorry, you’re a fringe case. You’re in the small minority. The vast majority of people who have an ME will never encounter the five second issue for exactly the reasons I listed out earlier.

I get that you are not happy, and I get why. But, nothing’s going to change. Perhaps future models will not have the issue, but I doubt Ford spends any time worrying about the five second issue for current or previous models. There’s no significant demand for them to do so.

Um, this thread and current owners warning other potential buyers says differently. When someone asks me if I would recommend the MME GTPE, I would ask them “do you care a great deal about performance? Yes? Don’t get the car. Get a EV6 GT.” The real world range difference isn’t that much. All Kia honestly has to do at this point to eat Ford’s lunch in every way is to put power seats in.

 

[Joanna84]

Um, this thread and current owners warning other potential buyers says differently. When someone asks me if I would recommend the MME GTPE, I would ask them “do you care a great deal about performance? Yes? Don’t get the car. Get a EV6 GT.” The real world range difference isn’t that much. All Kia honestly has to do at this point to eat Ford’s lunch in every way is to put power seats in.

I wouldn't even say "great deal" I would just say "do you care about performance" and on top of that I would add "do you ever find yourself passing people on a 2 lane 65+ mph highway" and if the answer is yes I'd tell them to look elsewhere.

 

[DevSecOps]

Do you think Ford might leave the money on the table for people who won’t buy another in the short term, but would be willing to part with 1-2k to have Ford unlock the limiter?

I'll just say that Ford is considering increasing the performance of current GT/GTPE vehicles at a cost. What that entails, and if it includes more than 5 seconds ... to be continued at a later date.

Sponsored