Adding a real subwoofer w/amp to your Mach-E

[Mach1E]

Hi,
I am interested in proceeding with mid-bass and bass enhancement in my 23 GTPE - but with a twist: I prefer full-range transducers to subwoofers. My home listening system, home theater, and racing-sim all use “full-range transducers” instead of sub-woofers. All of my subs got sold, and it is the best full sound I have ever experienced. This is the transducer I use at home, and want to use in my Mache (one mounted under each front seat): https://clarksynthesis.com/tst329-gold-transducer/

Benefits:
- I don’t have to shake the car with insane amounts of bass - the vibrations don’t have to travel through the car before they get to me
- because they are full-range (up to 17k hz), I can perfectly tune them to match the rest of the B&O system with a dsp/amp
- mounting them to the bottom of the seat ensures I get crisp, tight bass sound, that based on my experience should mean they are both immersive and invisible to my listening experience.
-it keeps my power requirements down as they are very efficient. (The clark transducers are best powered at 125 – 150 watts at 4 ohms)
- they require virtually no space giving me the ability to place them anywhere. All I need is the ability to attach a single screw to the underside of the seat.
-I can run them in series or as separate channel


Questions:
-has anyone else gone this route?
-I assume I can use the PAC audio pro plus an amp, and power both the transducers and the B&O door speakers?
-are there recommended dsp/amp recommendations for 2 transducers and the door woofers and tweeters?

Finally, I am looking for efficiency so I can hopefully leverage the 12v already in the back?

When I thought about doing something like this, I researched a little but haven’t actually experienced them.

I thought they were meant to basically vibrate things (like a couch) to give a more tactile response to bass, explosions etc. But they seemed more like a supplement to a subwoofer than a replacement for one.

Do they actually make sounds or just vibrate?

Not sure where you could attach them with the power seats though. Definitely an interesting idea.

I would be afraid it would cause some annoying rattles.

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[MrLoganRoss]

When I thought about doing something like this, I researched a little but haven’t actually experienced them.

I thought they were meant to basically vibrate things (like a couch) to give a more tactile response to bass, explosions etc. But they seemed more like a supplement to a subwoofer than a replacement for one.

Do they actually make sounds or just vibrate?

Not sure where you could attach them with the power seats though. Definitely an interesting idea.

I would be afraid it would cause some annoying rattles.
[/QUOTEseparating out lower end buttkicker type devices

Excluding lower-end buttkicker type devices that have a very limited frequency range, the Clark devices are full range, meaning they go into the audible frequency range and you can hear them. In fact, part of the product line are marine and underwater speakers.

The Clarks supplement music however your system needs them to: sub bass, low bass, mid bass, upper bass, vocals. You don’t want go too high as then you have voices on different speakers competing with each other.

The advantage vs. subs is that you don’t have to “pressurize the room”, making them more efficient. And no enclosures are needed. In my home audio setup, I had high end subs and got rid of them.

The Clark sound translates directly to me. They are extremely articulate! I feel every string plug, snare, and peoples voices have depth like in real life. While high-end subs can achieve some of these things, it is at a cost, and is much harder to blend because you spend so much time accounting for room acoustics.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

While I am planning the potential transducer install, I decided to use FORScan to see what impact changing the B&O system DSP EQ has. At default (setting 0), the curve seems flat. I prefer something along the lines of a Harmon curve. I programmed EQ1 this morning and has definitely upped mid and low bass to a state that is better sounding to me. However, I think the subwoofer bass is a bit boomy for my tastes. I will continue to try the other EQ settings.

I don’t suppose anyone has mapped out curves on the different EQ settings?

 

[21st Century Pony]

Today in prep for a trip to western Colorado next month I installed the JL 10-inch sub as described by MarkBoris at the beginning of this thread.

My twist is this: I found a way to make the mounted 10-inch JL sub absolutely level with the floor in its lower position when the floor is weight-loaded, the position in which my floor lives. I always carry the ModernSpare spare wheel + jack on the trunk floor, tied into the four trunk cargo rings. With the ModernSpare in its center position, I need all the trunk volume I can get above and around the ModernSpare for the other stuff I carry.

Step 1: I preserved the hard grey under-floor styrofoam, and cut out a rectangular well in the center (well, almost in the center) for the new JL sub. The styrofoam preserves the original floor support height with its thick outer parts, and gives me four small storage pockets around the new JL sub.
...and yes I did Dremel the two vertical floor pins that held the styrofoam unit in position, out as they really have no function once the heavy JL sub is inside the styrofoam. The sub is about 3/4 inch off center because I aimed to preserve as much as possible the styrofoam's thick support "pillars" to bear the weight of the removable floor above it. See the 1st several of the attached pix.

I used a Dremel with the tile cutting attachment for the rough early work, and a coping saw for fine work in corners and a metal hacksaw for longer finishing cuts through this dense styrofoam.

Step 2: at this point, the JL sub was resting in the styrofoam on the subfloor's felt mat, and while the JL's box was even with the top surfaces of the styrofoam, its speaker grille and the grille ring protruded 3/4 inch above the styrofoam's "pillars". I measured a round 10-inch opening for the JL's grille at the appropriate place on the underside of the trunk's removable floor and Dremeled it out, again with the Dremel's tile cutter (heck I can always get another floor from a wrecker yard if I don't like the result, I figured). The removable floor is a heavy cardboard honeycomb well-basted on both sides with resin (that resin gives the floor its drumlike sound and feel), and the visible black felt is glued onto the resin face. The Dremel's tile cutter cut right through.

CAUTION: anyone doing this is well advised to cut out the opening in the removable floor outside because the resin creates a lot of nasty fine grey dust all over the work area.

I then re-measured everything in place and fine-cut the opening a bit more to account for the JL sub's metal grille ring, which has four flat sides in amongst its circular shape. This made everything fit exactly right, whereas my previous circle cut wasn't quite right and the floor's weight had been actually resting on parts of the sub's metal grille ring. See one of the later pictures for this adjusted opening's shape.

RESULT: I assembled the floor onto the top of the styrofoam / JL sub assembly. Nothing wobbled and everything fit as if this was OEM factory-measured. Without load, the wooden straightedge shows a teeny bit of space above the grille (see pic). With my weight on the straightedge, the black floor felt gives enough so that the straightedge just barely touches the grille's top ridge.

I always have the OEM rubber Mach E mat over the floor of the trunk, so the sub grille's top ridge will touch just the bottom surface of that Mach E rubber mat. Therefore, no dirt should fall into the speaker cone.

I now will hunt for some rubber or plastic 3/4 inch C channel to seal the inside edge of the floor's honeycomb where I cut the speaker grille opening.

How does this installation of the JL sub sound? ...I don't know yet. I ran out of daylight (1939 driveway, no garage). I'll run the wiring on Thursday after the rain moves out. Hope this helps others out here.

...and yes I noticed I misspelled "styrofoam" on several pic labels. Smartphone - to email - to laptop, and no glasses on while hurrying up before dark, and all that...

 

[markboris]

Today in prep for a trip to western Colorado next month I installed the JL 10-inch sub as described by MarkBoris at the beginning of this thread.

My twist is this: I found a way to make the mounted 10-inch JL sub absolutely level with the floor in its lower position when the floor is weight-loaded, the position in which my floor lives. I always carry the ModernSpare spare wheel + jack on the trunk floor, tied into the four trunk cargo rings. With the ModernSpare in its center position, I need all the trunk volume I can get above and around the ModernSpare for the other stuff I carry.

Step 1: I preserved the hard grey under-floor styrofoam, and cut out a rectangular well in the center (well, almost in the center) for the new JL sub. The styrofoam preserves the original floor support height with its thick outer parts, and gives me four small storage pockets around the new JL sub.
...and yes I did Dremel the two vertical floor pins that held the styrofoam unit in position, out as they really have no function once the heavy JL sub is inside the styrofoam. The sub is about 3/4 inch off center because I aimed to preserve as much as possible the styrofoam's thick support "pillars" to bear the weight of the removable floor above it. See the 1st several of the attached pix.

I used a Dremel with the tile cutting attachment for the rough early work, and a coping saw for fine work in corners and a metal hacksaw for longer finishing cuts through this dense styrofoam.

Step 2: at this point, the JL sub was resting in the styrofoam on the subfloor's felt mat, and while the JL's box was even with the top surfaces of the styrofoam, its speaker grille and the grille ring protruded 3/4 inch above the styrofoam's "pillars". I measured a round 10-inch opening for the JL's grille at the appropriate place on the underside of the trunk's removable floor and Dremeled it out, again with the Dremel's tile cutter (heck I can always get another floor from a wrecker yard if I don't like the result, I figured). The removable floor is a heavy cardboard honeycomb well-basted on both sides with resin (that resin gives the floor its drumlike sound and feel), and the visible black felt is glued onto the resin face. The Dremel's tile cutter cut right through.

CAUTION: anyone doing this is well advised to cut out the opening in the removable floor outside because the resin creates a lot of nasty fine grey dust all over the work area.

I then re-measured everything in place and fine-cut the opening a bit more to account for the JL sub's metal grille ring, which has four flat sides in amongst its circular shape. This made everything fit exactly right, whereas my previous circle cut wasn't quite right and the floor's weight had been actually resting on parts of the sub's metal grille ring. See one of the later pictures for this adjusted opening's shape.

RESULT: I assembled the floor onto the top of the styrofoam / JL sub assembly. Nothing wobbled and everything fit as if this was OEM factory-measured. Without load, the wooden straightedge shows a teeny bit of space above the grille (see pic). With my weight on the straightedge, the black floor felt gives enough so that the straightedge just barely touches the grille's top ridge.

I always have the OEM rubber Mach E mat over the floor of the trunk, so the sub grille's top ridge will touch just the bottom surface of that Mach E rubber mat. Therefore, no dirt should fall into the speaker cone.

I now will hunt for some rubber or plastic 3/4 inch C channel to seal the inside edge of the floor's honeycomb where I cut the speaker grille opening.

How does this installation of the JL sub sound? ...I don't know yet. I ran out of daylight (1939 driveway, no garage). I'll run the wiring on Thursday after the rain moves out. Hope this helps others out here.

...and yes I noticed I misspelled "styrofoam" on several pic labels. Smartphone - to email - to laptop, and no glasses on while hurrying up before dark, and all that...

Great write up and pics Martin. When I installed that JL 10" in my Premium with the floor in the lower position it just barely touched the top of the speaker grill. Not sure why yours was much higher. Maybe they changed something? You can always recover the floor with carpet to hide the sub.

 

[21st Century Pony]

Great write up and pics Martin. When I installed that JL 10" in my Premium with the floor in the lower position it just barely touched the top of the speaker grill. Not sure why yours was much higher. Maybe they changed something? You can always recover the floor with carpet to hide the sub.

The difference in old and new floor heights was 3/4 inch which made the floor's back half sit on the JL sub's grille, which I didn't like because with weight on it the floor would get an induced bow, and besides why have heavy stuff lean on the speaker grille, right? and then I noticed the removable floor is 3/4 inch thick. So... out came the Dremel

 

[markboris]

The difference in old and new floor heights was 3/4 inch which made the floor's back half sit on the JL sub's grille, which I didn't like because with weight on it the floor would get an induced bow, and besides why have heavy stuff lean on the speaker grille, right? and then I noticed the removable floor is 3/4 inch thick. So... out came the Dremel

Ok, I had no idea there was actually a difference. Thanks for the update.

 

[21st Century Pony]

Ok, I had no idea there was actually a difference. Thanks for the update.

Yeah, (re)using that dense sub-trunk styrofoam allowed me to measure at the tops of its "pillars" and that became a consistent height point to measure against, with the new JL sub in position nested inside the styrofoam. Since both the JL sub and the styrofoam were (are) on the same subfloor, it became easy to calculate what I needed.

 

[21st Century Pony]

So I just took a 40 mile drive thru town and out on freeways after I completed installing the JL 10 inch sub and swapped the Ford OEM amp with the small JL 280/4 amp.

Wow! Wowzah! Jazz sounds great. The Bangles and Def Leppard sound awesome. Haven't tried classical yet but based on the other music, I'm sure it will be a lot better.

Lordy now I am certain to catch a ticket or two from Officer Friendly haha... I haven't had the music up this loud, this long in the Mach E since I bought it and I know from my BMW days that well-sounding loud music tends to make me speed up a bit.

Three neighbors stopped over when I was testing the setup in the driveway. Of course, it was getting towards night...

What I really like is the increase in quality without any loss of space (I used the 10 inch sub and cut a circle out of the removable floor for its mesh speaker screen - my rubber Mustang trunk mat covers the floor hole).

I could really tell the difference when I opened all four doors wide as well as the hatch, and then walked around the car 10 feet away from it while the volume was at 24 (of 30). Loud albeit not overwhelming, and clear all around.

Like MarkBoris, I used one 8 gauge power line for both new units. I added the JL amp's REM line to the 12+ of the trunk passenger sidewall hotpoint.

Many thanks to MarkBoris for his helpful memory that made my project a reality.

 

[markboris]

So I just took a 40 mile drive thru town and out on freeways after I completed installing the JL 10 inch sub and swapped the Ford OEM amp with the small JL 280/4 amp.

Wow! Wowzah! Jazz sounds great. The Bangles and Def Leppard sound awesome. Haven't tried classical yet but based on the other music, I'm sure it will be a lot better.

Lordy now I am certain to catch a ticket or two from Officer Friendly haha... I haven't had the music up this loud, this long in the Mach E since I bought it and I know from my BMW days that well-sounding loud music tends to make me speed up a bit.

Three neighbors stopped over when I was testing the setup in the driveway. Of course, it was getting towards night...

What I really like is the increase in quality without any loss of space (I used the 10 inch sub and cut a circle out of the removable floor for its mesh speaker screen - my rubber Mustang trunk mat covers the floor hole).

I could really tell the difference when I opened all four doors wide as well as the hatch, and then walked around the car 10 feet away from it while the volume was at 24 (of 30). Loud albeit not overwhelming, and clear all around.

Like MarkBoris, I used one 8 gauge power line for both new units. I added the JL amp's REM line to the 12+ of the trunk passenger sidewall hotpoint.

Many thanks to MarkBoris for his helpful memory that made my project a reality.

Hey Martin, great to hear you're much happier with your audio system now that you have proper bass and more power. 24 on the volume is pretty damn loud after adding that JL amp. That would be like 35 or so if the volume control went up that high. I tested the SPL prior to and after adding the amp and 15 now is like 25 use to be so I can imagine how 24 is. Of course it all depends on the tracks. When I play AC/DC, I definitely have it up in the 20's. ?

 

[21st Century Pony]

Hey Martin, great to hear you're much happier with your audio system now that you have proper bass and more power. 24 on the volume is pretty damn loud after adding that JL amp. That would be like 35 or so if the volume control went up that high. I tested the SPL prior to and after adding the amp and 15 now is like 25 use to be so I can imagine how 24 is. Of course it all depends on the tracks. When I play AC/DC, I definitely have it up in the 20's. ?

Jazz is now really clear and the notes and the vocal tonality are really recognizable.

I ended up moving the EQ balance point to just behind the shoulders of the front seats now. Sounds better. Also, stereo now really sounds like a stereo system.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

I am assuming everyone is connecting to accessory power vs straight to the battery?

 

[21st Century Pony]

I am assuming everyone is connecting to accessory power vs straight to the battery?

I connected the sub and the amp straight to the battery via an 8-gauge wire. However, to ping the 280 amp to start I also connected its REM line to the accessory plug's positive wire.

 

[markboris]

I am assuming everyone is connecting to accessory power vs straight to the battery?

I've personally helped install several of these subs and remotely helped guiding many others. Every one of them have the 12V power wire going directly to the battery. It is what is recommended by the manufacturer to have an 8ga wire going to the battery for a solid 30A 12V supply. There have been a couple of members here that have used the accessory power point in the rear cargo area successfully with lesser subs and actually one or two with this JL sub. While it will work, I have mentioned before that running this sub at high volumes for a sustained period of time will blow the 20A fuse on that power point. I had one member message me this happened to him but as long as he keeps the volume at a decent level there have been no issues. I don't recommend connecting it at the power point but it can be done. For reference, the 12V rear cargo power point has a 14G wire coming from the fuse box on a 20A circuit.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

Thanks everyone!

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