Deciding between a standard or extended range battery

[macchiaz-o]

I'm considering the standard battery, RWD Mach-E with an estimated 230 mile driving range. I'd prefer 300 miles, obviously, but the costs are slightly less acceleration, lower efficiency, and $5,000 + tax. (Or more than $5k, if this alone were causing me to switch from Select to Premium trim.)

The extra 70 miles of range with the larger battery pack would allow me to get to Tucson and back without charging mid-journey. But that's sort of a contrived example, since I'm more likely to go hiking or sightseeing someplace that is beyond the range of even the 300 mile battery. And at least in this area, many of those routes lack any charging infrastructure other than maybe RV parks.

What are your thoughts on the "costs" of the smaller or larger battery pack? How have you rationalized one versus the other?

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[hybrid2bev]

The extended range battery was the only choice for me. I want to take longer road trips of 1,000 miles or more. So there were two considerations.

First, to maintain good battery health and the quickest dc fast charging times the battery should be kept between 20 percent and charged up to 80 percent. Assuming you leave home at 100% charge and drive down to 20% you will get to use 80% of the vehicle range on the first leg of the trip. After that, you functionally get to use 60% of the batteries range fast charging from 20 to 80 percent. 300 miles of range means you really get about 180 miles of range between fast charging stops.

Second, because I live in Michigan I wanted all wheel drive which decreases the battery range (270), so a bigger battery is required to keep the vehicle range up.

 

[larryjwhite]

The extended range battery was the only choice for me. I want to take longer road trips of 1,000 miles or more. So there were two considerations.

First, to maintain good battery health and the quickest dc fast charging times the battery should be kept between 20 percent and charged up to 80 percent. Assuming you leave home at 100% charge and drive down to 20% you will get to use 80% of the vehicle range on the first leg of the trip. After that, you functionally get to use 60% of the batteries range fast charging from 20 to 80 percent. 300 miles of range means you really get about 180 miles of range between fast charging stops.

Second, because I live in Michigan I wanted all wheel drive which decreases the battery range (270), so a bigger battery is required to keep the vehicle range up.

Also don't forget that you can lose 20% to 30% of your range to on cold days to keep your windows clear and or stay warm. So your range could go down from 230 to 161 miles, worst case.

 

[Billyk24]

Photo is of the battery stress verse state of charge. Best to keep things in the middle and not towards the ends. I have a home in Northern Wisconsin. where zero fast charging sites exist for the Mach E. The UP has zero fast charging sites for Tesla and anyone else. One can find level 2 charging sites but these remain 22-3 miles per hour of charging which is not the best thing if one needs to stop during the day light for charging up their hvb.

 

[silverelan]

Also don't forget that you can lose 20% to 30% of your range to on cold days to keep your windows clear and or stay warm. So your range could go down from 230 to 161 miles, worst case.

There's a chance that the targeted 270 mile range *IS* the cold weather range on the Mach-E AWD ER and that the range on a 60F day would be 385 miles.

There was an interesting Jalopnik article about why the Taycan's 201 mile EPA range is so low and the answer is that it's the cold weather range which takes the nominal-condition range of 285 miles and multiples it by 0.7 to give it a de-rated range.

If Ford uses the same conservative formula, that puts the optimal range closer to the upper 300s.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Cool feedback, thank you! So far, I think I'm still fine with the standard battery. I could still be convinced, though. My take on your points, from my own perspective:

DC L2 charging in 60% blocks: 60% of 230 is 138 miles, or roughly 2+ hours driving. I wouldn't mind a stretch, relax, and potty break after that long. I wonder how much longer it will take to add 138 miles to the SR Mach-E when its battery is low, compared to adding 138 miles on the ER Mach-E?

Range loss in cold weather: The vast majority of the time, I'm just driving within the Phoenix Metro area. Our monthly averages range from 42 to 107 F, with a record low of 22 and high of 123 F. As a result, I'm much more concerned about permanent battery degradation resulting from high ambient temperatures. The car will sit in a large, totally unshaded parking lot during work days. One of the more important things I heard during the Mach-E reveal video was that the vehicle's battery and electrical systems are liquid heated and cooled. I'd never consider the current Nissan Leaf, for instance, because the batteries degrade quickly in our summers. I'm hoping the active cooling is taking place even while parked, just as it does on the Tesla vehicles. (I can hear their pumps running when I walk by them in the summer.) This is something I need to find out once the production cars start to show up next year.

SoC management slides: Cool info, thanks. I don't see how it relates to battery size, though. Also, I wonder if it's best to just let the car manage its own SoC? The engineers will have designed the system to best manage itself (I'd hope so, anyway). For instance, I know the Hyundai Ioniq EV will go to 0 miles remaining and you can still drive several miles before it switches to limp mode. And at the other end, the Ioniq indicates to the user that the battery is 100% full when in fact some percentage is left unused as part of its battery management. Over time, the unused portion slowly becomes usable in order to compensate for battery degradation for the first several years, keeping up the appearance of excellent battery health. Not sure if this is all true, but it's what I've read on an Ioniq discussion board.

 

[Billyk24]

concerned about permanent battery degradation resulting from high ambient temperatures. The car will sit in a large, totally unshaded parking lot during work days---with my CMax energi, sitting in the unshaded parking lot during warm summer days of "only" 90+f, the HVB will rise in temperature into the mid 90f range without even being used. I hate to think what 104+f will do. I have read that Tesla owners can actually have their vehicle monitor the HVB temperature while sitting in the parking lot and actively engage the liquid cooling system. The drawback will be a loss of state of charge (SOC) or range. AS for the CMax, it does not have a sufficient thermal cooling system for real warm summer weather. Some of us, resort to keeping the HVB SOC quite low and running the gas engine a lot.

 

[larryjwhite]

Cool feedback, thank you! So far, I think I'm still fine with the standard battery. I could still be convinced, though. My take on your points, from my own perspective:

DC L2 charging in 60% blocks: 60% of 230 is 138 miles, or roughly 2+ hours driving. I wouldn't mind a stretch, relax, and potty break after that long. I wonder how much longer it will take to add 138 miles to the SR Mach-E when its battery is low, compared to adding 138 miles on the ER Mach-E?

Range loss in cold weather: The vast majority of the time, I'm just driving within the Phoenix Metro area. Our monthly averages range from 42 to 107 F, with a record low of 22 and high of 123 F. As a result, I'm much more concerned about permanent battery degradation resulting from high ambient temperatures. The car will sit in a large, totally unshaded parking lot during work days. One of the more important things I heard during the Mach-E reveal video was that the vehicle's battery and electrical systems are liquid heated and cooled. I'd never consider the current Nissan Leaf, for instance, because the batteries degrade quickly in our summers. I'm hoping the active cooling is taking place even while parked, just as it does on the Tesla vehicles. (I can hear their pumps running when I walk by them in the summer.) This is something I need to find out once the production cars start to show up next year.

SoC management slides: Cool info, thanks. I don't see how it relates to battery size, though. Also, I wonder if it's best to just let the car manage its own SoC? The engineers will have designed the system to best manage itself (I'd hope so, anyway). For instance, I know the Hyundai Ioniq EV will go to 0 miles remaining and you can still drive several miles before it switches to limp mode. And at the other end, the Ioniq indicates to the user that the battery is 100% full when in fact some percentage is left unused as part of its battery management. Over time, the unused portion slowly becomes usable in order to compensate for battery degradation for the first several years, keeping up the appearance of excellent battery health. Not sure if this is all true, but it's what I've read on an Ioniq discussion board.

If I remember the Standard Range specs correctly it's max charging rate is 115KWH vs the 150KWH for the Extended Range. Depending on how Electrify America handles charging rate minute costs with their current rate increase at 125KWH it could be cheaper to charge up in the SR model.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Only the Select trim level has the 115 kW max DC charge limit. And yes, that would definitely save money at EA style chargers with their billing scheme. But based on the number of times I'd ever charge at an EA station, it will probably be an inconsequential difference. The bigger savings for Select is that it's about $7k cheaper than Premium's base cost. I'm eager to find out the final specs and options for Select to see if I should get that instead of Premium.

 

[phila]

Having driven an IPace for over 1 year now my biggest demand on EVs is range, hence the more the better. I have pre-ordered the RWD Long Range for my driving, even though I live in Norway it is the rainy, maritime south-western side hence hardly any snow. My IPace has AWD and it is obviously greater performing then RWD only models however these EVs perform incredible already so RWD with max battery was a simple choice for me. But, if snow is a regularity then I too would feel better with a AWD option, otherwise its really only improved performance which you get at the cost of range and initial price.

 

[silverelan]

Having driven an IPace for over 1 year now my biggest demand on EVs is range, hence the more the better. I have pre-ordered the RWD Long Range for my driving, even though I live in Norway it is the rainy, maritime south-western side hence hardly any snow. My IPace has AWD and it is obviously greater performing then RWD only models however these EVs perform incredible already so RWD with max battery was a simple choice for me. But, if snow is a regularity then I too would feel better with a AWD option, otherwise its really only improved performance which you get at the cost of range and initial price.

Interesting that you're getting a Mach-E in addition to the I-PACE you already have. Have you gotten both the charging speed update to 100kW and the range update by 8%? If so, have they made any difference in your ownership experience?

 

[phila]

Interesting that you're getting a Mach-E in addition to the I-PACE you already have. Have you gotten both the charging speed update to 100kW and the range update by 8%? If so, have they made any difference in your ownership experience?

Ya, my wife said the exact same thing There are some major EV incentives here in Norway which are set to expire on January 1, 2021 and its unsure if they will continue with the same or not . Hence I want to get another EV before that date so hoping the MachE doesnt delay!
Regarding the charging speed I have the latest infotainment but havent charged at a fast enough station to actually test it as almost all of my charging is done at home. But the dealer will do the 8% range thing mid January. In general the ownership experience has been great, it is our only car and we have 2 toddlers so have been using this as a family car with no complaints. We did suffer from the initial issues however with the black screens on the infotainment and in general laggy/buggy software but things stabilized quickly. My wife is actually the one that enjoys the IPace more then me as she seems to be in it all the time.

 

[Mopey]

Having driven an IPace for over 1 year now my biggest demand on EVs is range, hence the more the better. I have pre-ordered the RWD Long Range for my driving, even though I live in Norway it is the rainy, maritime south-western side hence hardly any snow. My IPace has AWD and it is obviously greater performing then RWD only models however these EVs perform incredible already so RWD with max battery was a simple choice for me. But, if snow is a regularity then I too would feel better with a AWD option, otherwise its really only improved performance which you get at the cost of range and initial price.

I realize you said you live in the "banana belt" part of Norway but I am curious as to how colder temperatures affect range - specifically as it relates to initially warming up a cold interior (how long) and keeping the cabin adequately warm. I live in central Alaska and winter temps are frequently -30 or lower.

 

[phila]

I realize you said you live in the "banana belt" part of Norway but I am curious as to how colder temperatures affect range - specifically as it relates to initially warming up a cold interior (how long) and keeping the cabin adequately warm. I live in central Alaska and winter temps are frequently -30 or lower.

I find my range on the IPace to be about 20% lower during the winter months, and my winter months tend to hover around the freezing point on average so not too bad. With -30 that 20% number will definitely be higher, but im simply guessing here as (luckily) I havent seen such cold in a while. But having an EV everything affects range, and i mean EVERYTHING. You have the environmental ones; Temperature, wind, rain, snow, etc
And the hardware ones: Tire type (winter / summer), tire size/width, total passengers and load, snow on car, open windows, roof racks, etc
And then the type of driving: Stop & go city driving, highway driving, aggressive driving, etc etc
I have indoor, closed garage parking and the car is rarely outside. However through the app I can set a departure period where the car will pre-heat / pre-cool to a set temperature. Im simply assuming Ford will have this stuff to. Its best to do this when plugged in however otherwise the juice will go down too. So everything you do with an EV will affect range, thats why I say for me the most important is range and battery size. This way the home charging can also be somewhat steered to charge during the cheaper rates as I generally always charge when the electricity is cheaper and even have my charger set up to not charge when the rates are above a certain rate. If i needed a fully charged car every day to do what I need to do then I would be forced to charge as soon as it was not in use.
However dont misunderstand, it is perfectly possible to have an EV even in your -30 Alaska. You must have a proper 10/11kw home charger setup in place so that you can get some good juice overnight and an Electrify America or similar network along the roads where you frequently commute if longer journeys are a part of your daily life.

Tip: If i lived in US, i would have this charger in my garage:

 

[macchiaz-o]

@phila,

Can you fix your Amazon link? It didn't come through. What's the name of the charger?

Yes, it looks like your assumption about pre-conditioning the car is correct. This is from Ford's FAQ on the Mach-E web site:

What can I do to help maximize my range?

a) Use Departure Times to begin cabin conditioning (heat or cool) while your vehicle is plugged in. This helps ensure that your vehicle is ready for the upcoming drive and you do not use the battery to heat or cool the cabin at the beginning of your trip. You can set departure times in the vehicle or using the FordPass app(TM).

b) Use your vehicle’s heated accessories rather than cranking up the heat in the cabin. Heated accessories (steering wheel, seats, etc.) use less energy than heating the entire cabin.

c) Practice eco-driving. Using eco-driving techniques can help maximize your range all year round. Some eco-driving tips include watching your speed and minimizing hard starts. You can also visit www.FuelEconomy.gov for more EV eco-driving tips.

d) Brush the snow off your car before driving. Snow or ice on your vehicle adds extra weight that your battery and electric motor have to move and increases aerodynamic drag by changing your vehicle’s profile. (It is also safer to drive without all that snow on your car.)

There's a caveat in the footnotes:

Effectiveness of cabin conditioning may be reduced by extreme outside temperatures or when using 120-volt charging.

So it appears that the Departure Times cabin conditioning may need to consume more significant amounts of power to do its thing.

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