Home Level 2 Charger Issues

[Maquis]

Are there any issues with plugging a device with it's own GFCI into a circuit with a GFCI breaker?

From an engineering perspective, no. All a GFCI does is compare the current flowing in the conductors. If all is well, it should net to zero (same number of electrons going out as coming back, in simple terms). If the out vs in varies my more than 0.006 amperes, it trips. (UL states it must trip between 0.004 and 0.006).

What can cause issues are surge protection schemes. Often surge protection circuitry connects from line to ground. If this circuit causes more than the 0.006 amps of leakage, the GFCI will trip. Devices that state not to connect to GFCI usually do so because of the type of internal surge protection they use.

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[Brademcee]

I am starting to wonder if switching out my 50-amp breaker will make a difference or possibly going to a hardwired EVSE (to eliminate the 240V outlet as a possible issue). I think there is some sensitivity to the charger in the MME with the 240V power and then the EVSE. Hopefully the dealer will let me take another MME home today to verify the issue repeats itself with another MME. I then know its not specific to my MME but something between the MME charger and the EVSE.

 

[CHeil402]

From an engineering perspective, no. All a GFCI does is compare the current flowing in the conductors. If all is well, it should net to zero (same number of electrons going out as coming back, in simple terms). If the out vs in varies my more than 0.006 amperes, it trips. (UL states it must trip between 0.004 and 0.006).

What can cause issues are surge protection schemes. Often surge protection circuitry connects from line to ground. If this circuit causes more than the 0.006 amps of leakage, the GFCI will trip. Devices that state not to connect to GFCI usually do so because of the type of internal surge protection they use.

From a Tesla forum, there was an issue with cascaded GFCI's because the Tesla Mobile Charger would 'verify' there was a solid ground by running some current to it during a self-test which would in turn trip the GFCI breaker. So no, in normal operation there is no issue, but if the end device performs any self-test like that (which I don't know if the Ford ones do) then it will cause an issue.

 

[Maquis]

From a Tesla forum, there was an issue with cascaded GFCI's because the Tesla Mobile Charger would 'verify' there was a solid ground by running some current to it during a self-test which would in turn trip the GFCI breaker. So no, in normal operation there is no issue, but if the end device performs any self-test like that (which I don't know if the Ford ones do) then it will cause an issue.

I don't doubt that to be true, but in my mind, that's poor design. The ground verification could be done at a current level low enough not to cause this issue.

I would also point out that the reason it trips the GFCI isn't due to cascaded GFCIs, per se, but rather to this unit self-test. Without this self test, the two GFCIs would have gotten along just fine.

 

[dbsb3233]

Devices that state not to connect to GFCI usually do so because of the type of internal surge protection they use.

So from a practical standpoint, that sounds like a potential Yes.

 

[dtbaker61]

Wondering it if we can tell the MME it that its getting 50 amps.

you, or the electrician, can use a 'clamp ammeter' on the main conductors... Some of the better multi-meters ($50 and up) have this built in. This entails pulling the deadfront from the service panel and exposing you to 240vAC... so be careful.

you can also install a fancy 3rd party monitor like found at Sense.com or Efergy.com that will have clamp ammeters you can use to watch any circuit you want, including the main Utility service

 

[bruceski88]

I don't doubt that to be true, but in my mind, that's poor design. The ground verification could be done at a current level low enough not to cause this issue.

I would also point out that the reason it trips the GFCI isn't due to cascaded GFCIs, per se, but rather to this unit self-test. Without this self test, the two GFCIs would have gotten along just fine.

When I installed the Grizzle in Placer County, CA the inspector asked that I clamp the cable with the plug to the wall so it could not be easily removed from the outlet, so I think that was to make it dedicated. No such request in Sunnyvale CA.

 

[malba2366]

Looks like I made it in under the wire last year.

Are there any issues with plugging a device with it's own GFCI into a circuit with a GFCI breaker?

From what I was told by my electrician you have a much higher chance of nuisance tripping with 2 GFCI. This is why he recommended not using a GFCI for the 14-50 plug he installed in my garage since the charge point charger has an internal GFCI.

 

[Brademcee]

you, or the electrician, can use a 'clamp ammeter' on the main conductors... Some of the better multi-meters ($50 and up) have this built in. This entails pulling the deadfront from the service panel and exposing you to 240vAC... so be careful.

you can also install a fancy 3rd party monitor like found at Sense.com or Efergy.com that will have clamp ammeters you can use to watch any circuit you want, including the main Utility service

The electrician did this yesterday and confirmed we are getting the correct amps/volts from the panel and then also at the outlet.

 

[JSW]

Based on problems the OP and others are having, I decided to unpack my Ford mobile charger and try it. I’ve been using the same Clippercreek charging station in my garage for 4 years with other Evs, and most recently with the MMe. I plugged the Ford unit into the Clippercreek plug and, after a couple of faults/replugs, it’s charging as I write.

On an unrelated note, the mobile Ford unit is huge. I’m going to keep an old Chevy charger in the car and put the Ford unit in my back garage.

 

[malba2366]

Maybe this could be a fix - ask your dealer about it.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/recall-21b02-s1-software-calibration-update.3868/

 

[Maquis]

When I installed the Grizzle in Placer County, CA the inspector asked that I clamp the cable with the plug to the wall so it could not be easily removed from the outlet, so I think that was to make it dedicated. No such request in Sunnyvale CA.

California has not yet adopted the 2020 NEC, so your installation is compliant - dedicated really has nothing to do with it.

 

[Brademcee]

So I am proud to say that I am NOW able to charge the car from my 240V outlet using the Ford Mobile charger. I took the car to the dealer this morning for them to look at it but I do not think they performed any updates on the car. The sales person ended up driving to my house with another MME (35 miles each way) and another charger just in case. But when we got to the house, we connected the car again but this time after we inserted the charger into the charge port, he hit the unlock button. All of a sudden it started to charge normally. Not sure what the unlock button does on the charge port but after he did this, it is now charging from the 240V outlet. I have since taken the car out for another ride and now it is charging again but this time I did not have to hit the unlock button for it to charge. I have no idea what happened but now it seems to be charging fine.

Here is a pic (ignore my old Tesla sign in the background). I need to take that down and replace with something else like a Pony.

No idea why it is working now because unless the dealer did a software update (which I do not think they did nor did they tell me they did anything at the dealership), there is no reason why it should be working.

I will take what I can get! Now I just need to figure out why the tone settings for bass, treble and mid range are not saving after the car is powered off. That is a discussion for another forum.

 

[jparduhn70]

So I am proud to say that I am NOW able to charge the car from my 240V outlet using the Ford Mobile charger. I took the car to the dealer this morning for them to look at it but I do not think they performed any updates on the car. The sales person ended up driving to my house with another MME (35 miles each way) and another charger just in case. But when we got to the house, we connected the car again but this time after we inserted the charger into the charge port, he hit the unlock button. All of a sudden it started to charge normally. Not sure what the unlock button does on the charge port but after he did this, it is now charging from the 240V outlet. I have since taken the car out for another ride and now it is charging again but this time I did not have to hit the unlock button for it to charge. I have no idea what happened but now it seems to be charging fine.

Here is a pic (ignore my old Tesla sign in the background). I need to take that down and replace with something else like a Pony.

No idea why it is working now because unless the dealer did a software update (which I do not think they did nor did they tell me they did anything at the dealership), there is no reason why it should be working.

I will take what I can get! Now I just need to figure out why the tone settings for bass, treble and mid range are not saving after the car is powered off. That is a discussion for another forum.

I’m happy it’s working for you. I haven’t had any luck yet. I swapped out the outlet today with a Bryant and it is a much more substantial one than the Leviton one that was originally installed. I tried pressing the unlock button and all that would happen with my car was a cycle on and off of the charger. I have a call in to my local Ford dealer and I asked them if they could bring a stock MME to my home to see if it will charge. Based on your experience, it’s almost like your charger learned something about the vehicle and then yours worked. Until the dealer has another in stock, I’m going to have to wait to see what’s going on.

 

[malba2366]

So I am proud to say that I am NOW able to charge the car from my 240V outlet using the Ford Mobile charger. I took the car to the dealer this morning for them to look at it but I do not think they performed any updates on the car. The sales person ended up driving to my house with another MME (35 miles each way) and another charger just in case. But when we got to the house, we connected the car again but this time after we inserted the charger into the charge port, he hit the unlock button. All of a sudden it started to charge normally. Not sure what the unlock button does on the charge port but after he did this, it is now charging from the 240V outlet. I have since taken the car out for another ride and now it is charging again but this time I did not have to hit the unlock button for it to charge. I have no idea what happened but now it seems to be charging fine.

Here is a pic (ignore my old Tesla sign in the background). I need to take that down and replace with something else like a Pony.

No idea why it is working now because unless the dealer did a software update (which I do not think they did nor did they tell me they did anything at the dealership), there is no reason why it should be working.

I will take what I can get! Now I just need to figure out why the tone settings for bass, treble and mid range are not saving after the car is powered off. That is a discussion for another forum.

Glad you got it working! Does the Jukebox work now too?

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