Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[efisher]

My Model 3 was $46,500 in 2018, and I received the $7,500 tax credit, so $39,000 out the door.

The Mach-E First Edition I ordered is $58,300 - $7,500 = $50,800, or actually $11,800 more than the Model 3 I already own.

So I don't think it's completely unreasonable to expect the same features I have today on a car that asks $11,800 more than I paid for what I currently have.

That's all I'm saying.

The Mach E has so many features that are not available in the Tesla, yet you obsess on the one half-baked feature included in the Tesla that Ford wisely left out of the Mach E. (Who wants to lose a mile of range per hour for countless hours of meaningless video that doesn't even offer review and detection figures that were available in security systems in the 1980s.)

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[timbop]

Sound pretty positive on that. You work for Ford, have an in with the design team? I know during our projects preliminary/original estimate are class C at best and design decisions over the course of the project have an impact on final results. I could hypothesizes they got their estimated range with less battery; hence the range grab. Possible the 88 KWh was not even in the equation for the original estimates.

No, I don't work for Ford. Ford has been vehement that the MME will hit its range targets, and a 10% buffer is pretty big. It seems logical that they picked a large buffer knowing that they could decrease it to guarantee hitting their range target. If you watch Darren Palmer, every time he talks about the car he says "ask what the customer wants, and then work back to how you provide that". So, I believe they started with the range and gave themselves a way to guarantee they'd hit that. As a lesser goal they don't want the customer to have to think about babying the battery, and a large buffer allows customers "to just charge it" without worrying about where the top end should be - they could just charge to what the car reports is 100% on L2.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

43 pages of posts for "no" - that's less than 5% of a letter per page!

 

[Shayne]

No, I don't work for Ford. Ford has been vehement that the MME will hit its range targets, and a 10% buffer is pretty big. It seems logical that they picked a large buffer knowing that they could decrease it to guarantee hitting their range target. If you watch Darren Palmer, every time he talks about the car he says "ask what the customer wants, and then work back to how you provide that". So, I believe they started with the range and gave themselves a way to guarantee they'd hit that. As a lesser goal they don't want the customer to have to think about babying the battery, and a large buffer allows customers "to just charge it" without worrying about where the top end should be - they could just charge to what the car reports is 100% on L2.

Bigger battery (more usable) same thing; do not need to baby batteries just use the car. The warranty is the only logical thing I can come up with. This is a new tech and every new tech has some education to it. I am not buying the yahoo argument. Most people spending this type of cash are not doing it to abuse their purchase (their will always be a small percentage for anything). Most got educated a long time along that they need to change the oil in their vehicle (tech changes) and dealers should educate again. Range is king and I thought it would be to Fords advantage to give it the the costumer. At least for this pilot. I think we will see better than estimated range at 7% less battery than the original cals indicated.

 

[silverelan]

That's too bad the video has been taken down. Here's the Fully Charged podcast episode for the panel discussion for anyone interested.

https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/fullychargedshow/Ep56_How_far_ahead_is_Tesla.mp3?dest-id=986252

 

[Jolteon]

I get some of your points. But again the model 3 is a car. the Mache is an SUV. I can't buy a Geo metro and expect it to have the same as an f-150. The segment is not the same. That is the problem with your pricing. You are going from a cheaper segment to a higher one. If Ford made the Mache as a car like a tesla model 3 then the price would be about 45,000 so around the same price.

56,409 is what a first edition is right now. not 58,300. take away the 7,500 and the cost is 48,909.

Yeah but I don't *want* an SUV, so that's not a positive for me. If anything, the fact that it's an SUV is of negative value to me. I wouldn't buy a Model Y when a 3 is available, so I compare the Mach-E to the 3. If Ford made a BEV of the Mustang Fastback, that's what I'd buy in a heartbeat.

MSRP is all I will compare, ever. Sorry. Not all buyers get the same pricing in Ford's screwed up dealer model so it's irrelevant to use anything but MSRP. All sales should be at MSRP anyway.

 

[Jolteon]

The Mach E has so many features that are not available in the Tesla, yet you obsess on the one half-baked feature included in the Tesla that Ford wisely left out of the Mach E. (Who wants to lose a mile of range per hour for countless hours of meaningless video that doesn't even offer review and detection figures that were available in security systems in the 1980s.)

"Half-baked" feature that has saved me multiple times.

Just cause you don't understand why people want it doesn't mean you're automatically right either, FYI.

 

[trutolife27]

Your mistake when talking to him is using logic and facts. Start with "Elon musk said the MME is only competition for the model Y"

Yeah but I don't *want* an SUV, so that's not a positive for me. If anything, the fact that it's an SUV is of negative value to me. I wouldn't buy a Model Y when a 3 is available, so I compare the Mach-E to the 3. If Ford made a BEV of the Mustang Fastback, that's what I'd buy in a heartbeat.

MSRP is all I will compare, ever. Sorry. Not all buyers get the same pricing in Ford's screwed up dealer model so it's irrelevant to use anything but MSRP. All sales should be at MSRP anyway.

Now the point you want the sentry mode is fine. I understand that. A like about a car is normal. No car is going to have all the wants of each person.


If you don't want an SUV then stay with your Model 3. This is like ring around the rosy. The price I gave is the price for yours. Well I guess then I can compare my daughters bike to a 747 plane. WTF can't my daughters bike not fly for the same money. I get it now this is so missed up. A t bone steak should cost the same as chicken wing. Right that is the logic now right?



What sales in the world are by msrp. nothing come on man.

Chicken wings, Chicken wings
Hotdog and baloney
Chicken and macaroni
Chillin’ wit mah homiiieees

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah but I don't *want* an SUV, so that's not a positive for me. If anything, the fact that it's an SUV is of negative value to me.

Which means most of your complaints will ring hollow here because most of us actually WANT the type of vehicle we're buying.

Size+shape is one of the very first criteria when choosing a vehicle. At least it is for 99% of people.

Don't want an SUV/crossover, then simple... PICK SOMETHING ELSE.

 

[Jolteon]

Now the point you want the sentry mode is fine. I understand that. A like about a car is normal. No car is going to have all the wants of each person.


If you don't want an SUV then stay with your Model 3. This is like ring around the rosy. The price I gave is the price for yours. Well I guess then I can compare my daughters bike to a 747 plane. WTF can't my daughters bike not fly for the same money. I get it now this is so missed up. A t bone steak should cost the same as chicken wing. Right that is the logic now right?



What sales in the world are by msrp. nothing come on man.

Chicken wings, Chicken wings
Hotdog and baloney
Chicken and macaroni
Chillin’ wit mah homiiieees

I paid MSRP for my Tesla.

When Ford makes an EV coupe, I'll buy that.

They haven't made one yet, so Mach-E is all I get.

 

[Jolteon]

Which means most of your complaints will ring hollow here because most of us actually WANT the type of vehicle we're buying.

Size+shape is one of the very first criteria when choosing a vehicle. At least it is for 99% of people.

Don't want an SUV/crossover, thee simple... PICK SOMETHING ELSE.

Not really. What else can I buy from Ford that isn't a crossover and is electric?

Not buying a BEV is not an option and nor should it be.

 

[dbsb3233]

Not really. What else can I buy from Ford that isn't a crossover and is electric?

Not buying a BEV is not an option and nor should it be.

Since when does Ford have to sell exactly what YOU want? News Fash: They don't make vehicles for your singular tastes. (And changing usernames doesn't change that fact).

Don't like what Ford sells? Then move on. Simple.

 

[trutolife27]

Not really. What else can I buy from Ford that isn't a crossover and is electric?

Not buying a BEV is not an option and nor should it be.

Polestar 2 is a car.

 

[timbop]

Which means most of your complaints will ring hollow here because most of us actually WANT the type of vehicle we're buying.

Size+shape is one of the very first criteria when choosing a vehicle. At least it is for 99% of people.

Don't want an SUV/crossover, then simple... PICK SOMETHING ELSE.

I'll offer what I hope is a reasonable counterpoint, as I am in fact getting a MME. I don't really like big vehicles, much preferring smaller, nimbler, and more fun to drive sporty cars. That's why over 35 years I've spent 22 behind the wheel of a mustang. In addition to the mustang I've had a grand prix, fiero (which I bought for my fiancee but drove a lot), and several small economy cars. However, my priority list puts a BEV above everything else - AND I believe the MME will still have those sporty driving characteristics. It is not a perfect fit but I am adult enough to recognize that I can't have everything I want, and will have to prioritize my desires with what is available. Would I prefer a convertible electric coupe? Absolutely! Is one available in my price range? nope. Would I prefer to have AWD with an ER battery? Yes. Can I justify the expense? Nope. OK, time to move on.

Compromise is a fact of life. Making a point in a discussion is all well and good, but there comes a point when repetition of a point morphs into simply complaining for the sake of complaining - particularly when those to whom the point is repeated have no ability to remedy that complaint.
Whining incessantly to one's parents about wants may work for children, but at some point one must put aside childish things.

 

[Jolteon]

Since when does Ford have to sell exactly what YOU want? News Fash: They don't make vehicles for your singular tastes. (And changing usernames doesn't change that fact).

Don't like what Ford sells? Then move on. Simple.

Why do you seem determined to talk a First Edition orderer into thinking he doesn't want the car he ordered?

Why can't we like the Mach-E *AND* want it to be better than it is?

Why do we have to accept what is done as somehow ordained to be perfection and incapable of questioning or improvement?

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