Maric

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The Mach-E's range is proving to be stellar! With some minor tweaks to the DC charging, it would probably beat just about any other crossover EV in a long distance challenge.
This really really needs to happen and if Ford doesn’t have engineers actively pursuing this goal on they are nuts. Because it would be a huge win and change some minds.
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eltonlin

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One of the caveats hit at over and over is the heat pump issue. Bjorn did a video and concluded it might extend a Tesla's range by 5 to 10%. Consider the Mach-E "won" by more than 10% here, it would seem that the Tesla would need more than a heat pump to win in a cold weather test.

NOTE: I know it would be way more complicated than that. The only real way of testing would be to run the test again in cold weather. But I still don't believe that the heat pump is the only answer to cold weather range.
Agree. What impressed me more was his comment about the elevation, and the fact that if it was straight freeway, the gap between the Mach-E and MY may have been even greater.
 

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What was the final efficiency numbers? Only mentioned once and it was at the halfway mark. Y was 260, Mach-E was at 30x. If the Y maintained that efficiency, range would be 288 miles (75 kWh divided by 260 wh/mi). For the Y to finish at 234 miles, the final efficiency would have to be 320 wh/mi, so something seems odd. Note, the 2020 Y LR has 75 kWh with a 3 kWh zero mile buffer, so 72 kWh when the UI displays zero.

Since he posts here, the answer to how much the Y needs for pre-conditioning in preparation for a Tesla Supercharger, it varies. While moving, the front Stator motor pulls 2.0-2.5 kW (only the front side the rear is already generating heat since the car is primarily RWD). While stationary, the front and rear Stator motors will pull 3.0-3.5 kW each.
 
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The fact the MME went further isn't so surprising at this point, though the size of the range difference is greater than I would have thought.

The big question is: When will reviewers stop using the (obviously bogus) Tesla EPA numbers as a meaningful benchmark?
 


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BTW @AoA updated his math in the YouTube comments:

"Note: Apparently my math was garbled. The SuperCharger stop was at mile 234 of a 246 mile journey. The Tesla said it had 10 miles remaining, so it would have done 244 in theory. At mile 234 the Mach E said 40 miles remaining giving it a total of 274 miles. "
 

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One of the caveats hit at over and over is the heat pump issue. Bjorn did a video and concluded it might extend a Tesla's range by 5 to 10%. Consider the Mach-E "won" by more than 10% here, it would seem that the Tesla would need more than a heat pump to win in a cold weather test.

NOTE: I know it would be way more complicated than that. The only real way of testing would be to run the test again in cold weather. But I still don't believe that the heat pump is the only answer to cold weather range.
He also said how much more efficient the Tesla is and that Ford's "much bigger" battery made the difference. He doesn't mention the wh/mi at the end, but what he does mention is a (not) whopping 14% better efficiency (.14 = 43/303). Computing the overall efficiency for the MME we get 3.05 mi/kwh. Using that number, the SR AWD MME would have had a range of 207 miles.

Thus, the LONG RANGE AWD MY can only go 37 miles further than the STANDARD RANGE AWD MME. Since we don't have RWD MME numbers we can only speculate, but it appears that the STANDARD RANGE RWD MME has similar range to the LR AWD MY.

hmmm
 

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If the Y maintained that efficiency, range would be 288 miles (75 kWh divided by 260 wh/mi). For the Y to finish at 234 miles, the final efficiency would have to be 320 wh/mi, so something seems odd
Yeah I noticed that, too - but he did say the return leg had faster speed limit. The computed wh/mi for the MME for the whole journey is 327. The updated miles for the Y was 244, so 72000/244 = 297 wh/mi. That comes to a 30 wh/mi advantage to the MY for the whole route, and not far off from the 43 wh/mi advantage on the first leg since it was uphill.
 

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This really really needs to happen and if Ford doesn’t have engineers actively pursuing this goal on they are nuts. Because it would be a huge win and change some minds.
Get the curve humming just below Mercedes for the full session and pump it up to 94 KWh it would be a force to be reckoned with. There is a mustang in there.
The fact the MME went further isn't so surprising at this point, though the size of the range difference is greater than I would have thought.

The big question is: When will reviewers stop using the (obviously bogus) Tesla EPA numbers as a meaningful benchmark?
Based on 0.7 of 2 cycle dyna numbers Tesla should be 297 but the vid says on the bottom end of that. Ford used a scalar of 0.76 also but appear on the upper end with close to a 30% swing? Does this show us EPA test may require tweaking for EV's? It is possible if the variance during Alex's vid is the case. I see no reason to release bogusly low dyna numbers when all it will do is free you up to slap whatever you want on a window sticker. The test or the numbers are a bit weird. Like the error on the side of the good guys thou ;).
 

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It's because Tesla is not a car company, it's essentially a Silicon Valley tech company and those companies are used to lying and getting away with it.
I don’t know why the EPA allows this nonsense allowing EV makers to use different multipliers on the test results to come up with their “epa range”.
 

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Yeah I noticed that, too - but he did say the return leg had faster speed limit. The computed wh/mi for the MME for the whole journey is 327. The updated miles for the Y was 244, so 72000/244 = 297 wh/mi. That comes to a 30 wh/mi advantage to the MY for the whole route, and not far off from the 43 wh/mi advantage on the first leg since it was uphill.
If the Y is 20% more efficient than the Mach-E and the Mach-E did it in 327 wh/mi, the Y would be around 262 wh/mi, which sounds more correct. 262 wh/mi equates to 287 miles of range assuming fully draining the battery, or 273 miles down to 0%. This is still off from the 244 updated miles, or 297 wh/mi. I wonder what charging habits the owner of the Y is doing and if the BMS needs to be recalibrated. It needs to be drained down below 10% on occasion otherwise the BMS thinks the available nominal battery remaining is lower than what it actually is. If you're bored, there's some info here: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...lf-of-my-batterys-lost-capacity.204712/unread

It's nice seeing Ford not play the EPA range game and having a realistic real world range.

My 2020 LR Y w/ acceleration boost gets 240 wh/mi at 65 mph and 260 wh/mi at 75 mph in temps 60-80F. I make a drive from Delaware to Northern Virginia, roughly 250 miles roundtrip and I can do it without charging (except in Winter). For those that drive on the 95/495/695 corridor, you know how aggressive the driving can be lol.

Something still seems odd on that Y's range, though.
 

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Get the curve humming just below Mercedes for the full session and pump it up to 94 KWh it would be a force to be reckoned with. There is a mustang in there.


Based on 0.7 of 2 cycle dyna numbers Tesla should be 297 but the vid says on the bottom end of that. Ford used a scalar of 0.76 also but appear on the upper end with close to a 30% swing? Does this show us EPA test may require tweaking for EV's? It is possible if the variance during Alex's vid is the case. I see no reason to release bogusly low dyna numbers when all it will do is free you up to slap whatever you want on a window sticker. The test or the numbers are a bit weird. Like the error on the side of the good guys thou ;).
here's the LR Y AWD EPA cert nu mbers and here's the link to the full document. Page 23 for the LR Y AWD. This cert is for the 2021 LR Y AWD but it's the same battery as the 2020. If Tesla eliminated the three additional urban cycles, range drops from 330 to 308. The rated range is heavily slanted towards urban driving and not highway speeds. Take out all the pure urban cycles and you'll see ~ 300 miles.
https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=51237&flag=1

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E vs Model Y Range Test, Alex on Autos 1615902738100
 

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Long Long time Ago If my memory serves me right. I think someone said this would happen. But hey again what would I know.
Yeah... That was ME!
 

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here's the LR Y AWD EPA cert nu mbers and here's the link to the full document. Page 23 for the LR Y AWD. This cert is for the 2021 LR Y AWD but it's the same battery as the 2020. If Tesla eliminated the three additional urban cycles, range drops from 330 to 308. The rated range is heavily slanted towards urban driving and not highway speeds. Take out all the pure urban cycles and you'll see ~ 300 miles.
https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=51237&flag=1
I wonder if Ford geared it towards the real work and said to the epa numbers. I was comparing 2 cycle and not the stuff at the discretion of the administrator. Maybe my math is wrong? Not sure how current my numbers are now either not much sense now I own one. The wall loss on a tesla is the highest?

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E vs Model Y Range Test, Alex on Autos 1615908107150
 

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We all knew the MYLR was going to be more efficient than the MME Ext AWD because the Tesla is lighter and has an uglier but more aerodynamic design (think Prius). But that efficiency difference is negligible and the electricity savings will never cover the (current) price difference.

By contrast, the range difference due to the bigger battery may be significant depending upon driving habits.

Terrible rollout aside, Ford knocked it out of the park with the MME itself and it could seriously threaten Tesla’s market share once Ford can start producing them in meaningful quantities. It is the better car in most regards.
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