Shayne

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Threads
18
Messages
3,341
Reaction score
2,489
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Vehicles
2021 MME4x Prem
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Can not imagine crawling into a M3 and driving that look around for that winter range which is the only time it matters (When heat pumps don't count). What also needs to be noted is there is a 100 KWh pack using 88 in the stang.

Both are just a wee bit better in efficiency compared to ICE. @ 33.4 Kw/gallon I pay 30% less a gallon right now and at 16.0 Kw/100 Km (@benk016 above) it gets over 200 km/gal or 130 mpg. I am getting around 105 mpg. The Rav4 at 40 mpg is not a match and comparing ev's I find is becoming a bit like spitting hairs. Both are green if the charge is. Range is still king not efficiency.

Good to see so many options coming out. Just keeps growing :).
Sponsored

 

Carsinmyblood

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
May 2, 2021
Threads
126
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
1,995
Location
Western NC
Vehicles
'53 XK120, '58 MGA, '66 E-Type, MME Prem, EX, awd
Occupation
Self employed
Country flag
I wonder how the distance/kWh would compare in a short course if they were all weighted the same?

The MX-30 at 13.2kWh/100 and
the VW ID.3 at 13.3kWh/100 compare favorably, but are at the top and bottom making one of the better performers look awful.
 

Blanked

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Threads
32
Messages
386
Reaction score
373
Location
Bluffton, SC
Vehicles
2021 MME FE , 2003 Ford Excursion EB 4x4
Country flag
Keep in mind, those figures were for the WINTER test. They just did the Summer test last week.

1623093696614.png
I was about to state the same thing.. that the MME was not #1. But I'm happy to see our MachE-4x in the top5!

Also, just think, if Ford can get their Average Consumption into the 12.2 - 12.4 kWt/100 range like Tesla... then It's a Fight for sure.. the fact that VW is in the 13.3 - 13.5 kWT/100 range with two vehicles is a little concerning for Ford...

just my opinion
 

pt19713

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
524
Reaction score
495
Location
.
Vehicles
.
Country flag
For
I kinda feel sorry for the ones at the bottom of the list. Seems like scooter ranges.
For Europe, range isn't as important due to the shorter distance they need to drive and public transportation infrastructure if they need to travel longer distances (train).
 

ARK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Threads
42
Messages
2,732
Reaction score
3,986
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E
Country flag
Aerodynamics.
What’s interesting is battery tech seemingly gets all the attention with regard to future range improvements across the industry, but I wonder what exists in the R&D pipeline for improvements in energy use with upcoming motors.
 


Jimrpa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
230
Messages
7,009
Reaction score
9,299
Location
Wayne, PA
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue Premium Mustang Mach E ER AWD
Occupation
Retied (formerly tried to herd highly technical, independent cats)
Country flag
The Fords also don't have heat pumps and are CSUVs. Imagine a low profile electric "real" Mustang with a heat pump.
The Mustang Mach E IS a REAL Mustang. Sigh ?
 

theo1000

Well-Known Member
First Name
Theo
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
473
Reaction score
607
Location
Shawnee, KS
Vehicles
Mach-E 2021 IB, Audi Etron, Chevy Volt, BMW I3,
Country flag
The M3 and the MachE are simply not comparable. The M3 is closer to the ID3, really a sub-compact these days, the ID3 is in fact taller. I wonder how driving characteristics affect the efficiency numbers. I know just a subtle change in how I accelerate can make a 5%-10% change in efficiency. The MachE does have a tendency to lunge when you hit the accelerator. Kinda the old ICE mustang feel.

Ford should just build attractive capable cars, don't let some silly range measuring stuff dictate your approach. The Mach-E and the ID4 are more comparable. 15 to 14.5.
 

ab13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
584
Reaction score
469
Location
California
Vehicles
Rav4 Hybrid
Country flag
What’s interesting is battery tech seemingly gets all the attention with regard to future range improvements across the industry, but I wonder what exists in the R&D pipeline for improvements in energy use with upcoming motors.
I would expect most of it has to do with cost and weight. The efficiency of electrical motors is high, 95%+. In fact the government research labs tests various hybrid and EV drive systems and the efficiency of power coming out of the battery and from the motor is around 95%+ in the best designs.

Improving aerodynamics and weight reduction will result in better improvements than chasing 2 or 3 percent system gains. Of course the electric motor suppliers are going to keep improving, but you could get 5%+ more range from aerodynamics and weight savings.

That is really where the difference is between Tesla and other designs, they reduce weight and have lower aerodynamic drag. That does affect their styling and lack of features (weight). The upcoming Mercedes EQS is going to be among the first to have lower drag Cd than Tesla, so its real world range and efficiency could be higher.
 

theo1000

Well-Known Member
First Name
Theo
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
473
Reaction score
607
Location
Shawnee, KS
Vehicles
Mach-E 2021 IB, Audi Etron, Chevy Volt, BMW I3,
Country flag
A 20% reduction in battery cost without large weight increase would make all this irrelevant as the Mach-E is demonstrating. All of TSLA scrimping and scraping and lightning macqueening means nothing when Ford can slap a few more kwh in there. And I think that should be the preferred over discontenting and over skimping on efficiency.
 

pt19713

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
524
Reaction score
495
Location
.
Vehicles
.
Country flag
That is really where the difference is between Tesla and other designs, they reduce weight and have lower aerodynamic drag. That does affect their styling and lack of features (weight). The upcoming Mercedes EQS is going to be among the first to have lower drag Cd than Tesla, so its real world range and efficiency could be higher.
It'll come with a battery pack sizes of 90 or 108+ kWh. Based upon the dimensions of the car plus the large pack, it is probably not going to be a light vehicle, probably around 4900-5100 lbs. The aero will help but overall efficiency will drop just due to the weight, unfortunately.
 

Scarpia

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
464
Reaction score
701
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Infinite Blue Premium, Standard Range, RWD
Country flag
Good thread, interesting. But...Mach E wins again? :rolleyes:
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
6,072
Reaction score
8,021
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
It'll come with a battery pack sizes of 90 or 108+ kWh. Based upon the dimensions of the car plus the large pack, it is probably not going to be a light vehicle, probably around 4900-5100 lbs. The aero will help but overall efficiency will drop just due to the weight, unfortunately.
Yes but steady state highway range should be very good. The weight will reduce city range but should impact highway range less, where aerodynamics play a big role in range. If it has 108 kWh of usable capacity (I have not confirmed the number), it may have the best highway range on the market, possibly beating the Model S.
 

Excited

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
167
Reaction score
119
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Mach-E RWD SR Techno+
Occupation
GIS Engineering
Country flag
I was about to state the same thing.. that the MME was not #1. But I'm happy to see our MachE-4x in the top5!

Also, just think, if Ford can get their Average Consumption into the 12.2 - 12.4 kWt/100 range like Tesla... then It's a Fight for sure.. the fact that VW is in the 13.3 - 13.5 kWT/100 range with two vehicles is a little concerning for Ford...

just my opinion
Yup, and I'm expecting some software upgrades to make it a bit better...

Price vs range; MME looks pretty good, and if some think that range doesn't matter in Europe, o_O

The route they drive in the test doesn't have too much highway (110 km/h), but some. It has a good amount of elevation though, as the cars that has the longest range climb 1600 (altitude) meters. I believe most part of the route is driven at a speed of approx. 80 – 90 km/h.

You can see the test results at NAF's site here (Norwegian): https://nye.naf.no/elbil/bruke-elbil/test-rekkevidde-sommer-2021

I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't test the standard range MMEs. In the winter test NAF said that they wanted to test them, but Ford Norway didn't give them the opportunity :(
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 




Top