ROAD TRIP MUST READ! 1 pedal driving: BAD Destination chargers (even Tesla) GOOD

Vulnox

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Well next Friday I have a ~5 hour drive, and it's a very simple drive in terms of traffic and elevation, just flat the whole way. Maybe I will turn off 1 Pedal on the way and see what it comes up with. The last time we did this trip was with 1 Pedal and the car hit the expected efficiency, better really than I expected. So it would certainly be some magic if it was even more so. This won't be a very scientific test either, but if I saw the kind of efficiency improvement OP indicated, then I would be able to skip the one charging stop entirely, since we were only about 20 miles shy otherwise and only spend 10 minutes at the charging stop.
 
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TurboC

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Not a controlled scientific test. As an engineer you should know better than making such claims. You are simply telling an anecdote without even attempting to provide a plausible sounding explanation.
Interesting, did I say it was a "controlled scientific test"? I said "here's all my variables", and did my best to offer as much control info as possible. Pretty bold of you to say "no plausible sounding explanation" when I gave as much data as possible to the thread that I had available/controlled.

I'm not trying to represent Ford Motor Company here Chuck, I'm here to try to HELP OTHERS with my experiences, which, if memory serves is the point of having a user supported forum?

Perhaps rather than throw a massive shade/hate bomb, you go out there, test yourself as I have encouraged, and try it out? Or , you could instead keep dropping negative posts and pop out without recourse b/c yeah, the internet is cool like that. :p

I'm trying to help others thru my experiences; try it out yourself, test it out , and see. Or, you could not, and just live like "ignorance is bliss" I guess.

I'm not an expert, but I AM passionate about trying to pay it forward/help others, especially in this forum (which is the whole point).
 
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TurboC

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Well next Friday I have a ~5 hour drive, and it's a very simple drive in terms of traffic and elevation, just flat the whole way. Maybe I will turn off 1 Pedal on the way and see what it comes up with. The last time we did this trip was with 1 Pedal and the car hit the expected efficiency, better really than I expected. So it would certainly be some magic if it was even more so. This won't be a very scientific test either, but if I saw the kind of efficiency improvement OP indicated, then I would be able to skip the one charging stop entirely, since we were only about 20 miles shy otherwise and only spend 10 minutes at the charging stop.
Vulnox, LOVE LOVE THIS! PLEASE post your experience afterward. Having the same route tested over and over with the control being the route and similar temps/weight/etc is a really good practical test. I'd love to learn what you discover, thanks! PS: I'd love to be proven right OR wrong as well; if you have practical data for your experience I'd love to hear about it. Thanks! :)
 

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Vulnox, LOVE LOVE THIS! PLEASE post your experience afterward. Having the same route tested over and over with the control being the route and similar temps/weight/etc is a really good practical test. I'd love to learn what you discover, thanks! PS: I'd love to be proven right OR wrong as well; if you have practical data for your experience I'd love to hear about it. Thanks! :)
Yeah it would certainly be cool if there was something to it. I have used this route to test some things in the past since it's so traffic light and you spend almost the entire trip on the same highway. Last test was with my 2021 F-150 and seeing what the MPG difference was with 4 Auto engaged vs 2 High. There was a difference, but it was pretty minor in the grand scheme of things (about a half an MPG). Could argue it was within the realm of error, but I was able to reproduce the difference a few times. So I am definitely with you as far as there could be something to it, I just wish it was clearer what the underlying cause was.

With the F-150, it's pretty open and shut. In 4 Auto the front hubs lock and whether or not the front axle gets torque is based on a clutch system in the transfer case. At highway speeds that clutch isn't really engaged, so it shouldn't lead to much loss. But the front hubs being locked will introduce a little bit of loss, and it makes sense I might see that .5 MPG difference.

In the 1 Pedal case, I am not really doubting you on there being a difference, I am just not quite sure what the underlying cause is. There shouldn't be any additional losses if you are just driving at 70 MPH on a flat road with no traffic and BC and 1 Pedal enabled. It's not like 1 Pedal introduces additional drag in that case, it would be impossible for it to since the motors can't both be regenerating and driving the wheels at the same time. So I suspect it might be that Ford's programming for BC is just aggressive on the braking when 1 pedal is on, so you slow down more than the situation calls for. But then the issue would be how BC handles traffic I guess? Like, if I do this drive and have minimal traffic, would it even be present. That's where I get lost.
 


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Since BlueCruise literally disables 1PD mode when it is engaged*, and others who have done long drives with BlueCruise engaged and the 1PD setting turned on report no efficiency loss, Occam's razor suggests that any reduction in efficiency on your trip was due to some other factor that you did not/could not control for - possibly something malfunctioning in your specific car.

*1PD mode doesn't change anything in your car except how it reacts to incremental positions of the gas pedal. Therefore, 1PD is incompatible with cruise control, so it is disabled when cruise is activated. If 1PD was still active when cruise control was engaged, then letting up on the pedal to let the car take over would instead apply regen and you'd have two different systems competing to control your speed.
 

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Can you share the route, and what day and time it was driven in each case? I want to look into other factors here.

When the car is in cruise control, the pedal mode shouldn't matter because the PCM is managing everything either way. The drive mode could have an effect, since whisper in 1PD coasts while on cruise control vs. the other drive modes have regen. Basically whisper 1PD allows you to exceed the set speed without any braking (such as going downhill). But I think whisper 2PD does the same.
 
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TurboC

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Yeah it would certainly be cool if there was something to it. I have used this route to test some things in the past since it's so traffic light and you spend almost the entire trip on the same highway. Last test was with my 2021 F-150 and seeing what the MPG difference was with 4 Auto engaged vs 2 High. There was a difference, but it was pretty minor in the grand scheme of things (about a half an MPG). Could argue it was within the realm of error, but I was able to reproduce the difference a few times. So I am definitely with you as far as there could be something to it, I just wish it was clearer what the underlying cause was.

With the F-150, it's pretty open and shut. In 4 Auto the front hubs lock and whether or not the front axle gets torque is based on a clutch system in the transfer case. At highway speeds that clutch isn't really engaged, so it shouldn't lead to much loss. But the front hubs being locked will introduce a little bit of loss, and it makes sense I might see that .5 MPG difference.

In the 1 Pedal case, I am not really doubting you on there being a difference, I am just not quite sure what the underlying cause is. There shouldn't be any additional losses if you are just driving at 70 MPH on a flat road with no traffic and BC and 1 Pedal enabled. It's not like 1 Pedal introduces additional drag in that case, it would be impossible for it to since the motors can't both be regenerating and driving the wheels at the same time. So I suspect it might be that Ford's programming for BC is just aggressive on the braking when 1 pedal is on, so you slow down more than the situation calls for. But then the issue would be how BC handles traffic I guess? Like, if I do this drive and have minimal traffic, would it even be present. That's where I get lost.
This is EXACTLY the kind of intelligent response I was hoping for, and your thought process is similar to mine. I look forward to seeing what happens for you!
- Chris
 

kodiakng

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one small issue with your entire theory as it relates to bluecruise or any cruise control function as @corradoborg asserted - here is the section of the manual backing up their assertion:

Ford Mustang Mach-E ROAD TRIP MUST READ!  1 pedal driving: BAD Destination chargers (even Tesla) GOOD Screenshot 2023-08-22 at 12.08.47 PM
 

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one small issue with your entire theory as it relates to bluecruise or any cruise control function as @corradoborg asserted - here is the section of the manual backing up their assertion:

Ford Mustang Mach-E ROAD TRIP MUST READ!  1 pedal driving: BAD Destination chargers (even Tesla) GOOD Screenshot 2023-08-22 at 12.08.47 PM
Yeah, the cruise control part is where the original hypothesis hits a wall for me. I don't know how the actual Blue Cruise itself is involved. That's why I think unless someone does a 10 mile loop, as controlled as possible, it's going to be hard to convince anyone it's a real thing. Even me trying on the trip isn't perfect, but if it's as significant a difference as claimed I should see something.

But we will see, it's more interesting than just snide comments but no effort which is what half of forums tend to be.
 

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Yeah, the cruise control part is where the original hypothesis hits a wall for me. I don't know how the actual Blue Cruise itself is involved. That's why I think unless someone does a 10 mile loop, as controlled as possible, it's going to be hard to convince anyone it's a real thing. Even me trying on the trip isn't perfect, but if it's as significant a difference as claimed I should see something.

But we will see, it's more interesting than just snide comments but no effort which is what half of forums tend to be.
agree - wish i had enough bluecruise available miles to test on around me but only 5 or so in two separate locations isn't going to do anything. i suppose i could get an idea if the newly enabled power meter on my IPC lights up regen in those areas. 🤔
 

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agree - wish i had enough bluecruise available miles to test on around me but only 5 or so in two separate locations isn't going to do anything. i suppose i could get an idea if the newly enabled power meter on my IPC lights up regen in those areas. 🤔
Yeah I have plenty of highway around us, but the light traffic part is nearly impossible without driving about an hour away. Seems like a project for Kyle from OoS or Tom from State of Charge who already do the 70 MPH range tests. I suspect they would say the same thing though, doesn't make sense really as written, you have to get past the part where 1 Pedal is just regen, and you can't both regen and drive a motor. So I suspect in a situation where there was no traffic 1 Pedal or no 1 Pedal, the results will be near as makes no difference identical.
 
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TurboC

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Can you share the route, and what day and time it was driven in each case? I want to look into other factors here.

When the car is in cruise control, the pedal mode shouldn't matter because the PCM is managing everything either way. The drive mode could have an effect, since whisper in 1PD coasts while on cruise control vs. the other drive modes have regen. Basically whisper 1PD allows you to exceed the set speed without any braking (such as going downhill). But I think whisper 2PD does the same.
You bet; if you Google the drive path from Ames, IA to Seattle, WA that is (basically ) it if you add Pierre, SD as a waypoint in between.
 
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TurboC

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agree - wish i had enough bluecruise available miles to test on around me but only 5 or so in two separate locations isn't going to do anything. i suppose i could get an idea if the newly enabled power meter on my IPC lights up regen in those areas. 🤔
Hey, I REALLY appreciate that prior post; at this point then I'm baffled too. :p It was the only feature I turned off/on, multiple times to test this theory to begin with, and I guess I'm going to have to keep testing it to figure out why the range was so different. The only real way to confirm all this then is to simply drive the exact same route, with the same MPH maxes, and with very similar temperature ranges. I do wonder this and put it out there; I wonder if 1 PD "auto engages" the moment there is some level of stop and go traffic? For example, there were a number of times where we'd hit construction zone slow downs, the auto breaking would engage and then (I'm 100% guessing) does the 1 PD go back to being "on" as a default when slowing down/auto breaking? In other words, could that feature be "on" again when not at full speed, and therefore effecting my range data/theory? I'm honestly not sure..
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