Why is EVSE so expensive?

[Triggerhappy007]

Wait what! Thats what I have and have used for decades. Never an issue. I do make sure I have solar grade circuit breaker, couple of bucks more but it is a simple $10 Nema 14-50R outlet from lowes.

They are industrial grade and rated for dryers and washing machines which in my house run 20 hours a day, way more than the EVSE, ever!!

This is sort of mission creep is unnecessary and needlessly causes cost escalation.

TBH if TSLA says so, I do the exact opposite, been a good strategy...

What is wattage is the industrial dryer? 32A is 7680 watts. 40A is 9600 watts. I have a feeling you haven't had any problems because it's not using that much continuously. But if you are using an industrial dryer, you should be using an industrial outlet. It's only $40 more than a $10 outlet.

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[mkhuffman]

They are industrial grade and rated for dryers and washing machines which in my house run 20 hours a day, way more than the EVSE, ever!!

None of your appliances draw high, steady current like a EVSE does. Your dryer heating element is turning off and on over the course of the dry cycle. Your washing machine isn't even 240 Volts. Your oven is only continuously on until pre-heat is over.

There have been rigorous debates on this forum about the difference between a $60 outlet and a $10 outlet. The $60 outlet is definitely more robust. The question is whether or not the extra robustness is needed. Personally I think if you are doing a lot of plug cycles, you should get the more robust outlet.

If you rarely plug/unplug, the cheap one is probably fine. But check the outlet regularly with your hand to see if it is hot. If it is hot, stop using it immediately. If it is barely warm, you should be OK. I also touch the plug copper "blades" when disconnecting the plug to see if they are hot. They should be barely warm after a long 40 Amp charge. If they are hot, you have a problem.

 

[theo1000]

If you rarely plug/unplug, the cheap one is probably fine. But check the outlet regularly with your hand to see if it is hot. If it is hot, stop using it immediately. If it is barely warm, you should be OK. I also touch the plug copper "blades" when disconnecting the plug to see if they are hot. They should be barely warm after a long 40 Amp charge. If they are hot, you have a problem.

Don't agree. I have 6 EV's and put over 5000 miles on them over the average month and I barely use my EVSE's, maybe 4-5 hours in a day on average. mostly less when I DCFC.

Think about it. Most folks drive maybe 2000 miles a month. Even a 2.0 mpk on EV means 1000 kwh a month. Averages out about 30 kwh per day or about 3-4 hours of EVSE use per day. This is a rounding error. Just because you may do it in 8 hour chunks doesn't justify your logic.

WRT to plug temprature it is rated to operate up to 75C. It is designed to run warm and cool itself. Entire reason for the metal box etc. Hot enough to cook and egg and it is designed to operate that way. And tested with million's no billions of test cycles. What do you have to back up your logic.

Put it to you that the failures have to a T been install errors, and failures to re-torque the lugs every so often, which the code requires, remember....

This is the sort of needless unproven alarmism that comes from 'that' company. You have posted nothing to back up your unfounded claims except 'I think so'.

Again this is a Ford forum so we are reality based here...

 

[ChuckA]

I paid $659 for my JuiceBox 32 that the utility offered a $500 rebate. I could have continued to use the Ford mobile EVSE but for $159 net my purchase of the JuiceBox was a no brainer.

 

[OON7]

The one I got works fine. I don't see any spec differences between the Hubbell and the $10 version. So, other than the price, what makes one 'industrial' vs. 'non-industrial'?

The cheap one had a spec showing it can accept 40 amps continuous, and 50 amps for up to four hours. Are there even any plug-in portable chargers that exceed 40 amps? The Ford mobile maxes out at 32 amps.

Wait what! Thats what I have and have used for decades. Never an issue. I do make sure I have solar grade circuit breaker, couple of bucks more but it is a simple $10 Nema 14-50R outlet from lowes.

They are industrial grade and rated for dryers and washing machines which in my house run 20 hours a day, way more than the EVSE, ever!!

This is sort of mission creep is unnecessary and needlessly causes cost escalation.

TBH if TSLA says so, I do the exact opposite, been a good strategy...

I was sure I was right too...

 

[theo1000]

I was sure I was right too...

Proves nothing. Show me the back side. Bet you it was not installed correctly. You have to know what you are doing or it doesn't matter what is used.

 

[breeves002]

Scam or no, try collecting from your insurance company if you use a non-listed device (or wire) in your home and it causes a fire.

They will pay. They still pay for negligence or ignorance, just not deliberate destruction or fraud. They very well might drop you though.

Almost all reputable products are listed anyways. The idea behind it is honestly good but in the end UL is another greedy cash hungry company. As someone who has been in charge of getting our products UL certified before I speak from experience. It's frustrating and sometimes they use standards that make absolutely no sense for the device being tested. Like insane inductive loads on an LED driver that LITERALLY cannot happen in the real world.

 

[Pioneer74]

Proves nothing. Show me the back side. Bet you it was not installed correctly. You have to know what you are doing or it doesn't matter what is used.

 

[OON7]

Proves nothing. Show me the back side. Bet you it was not installed correctly. You have to know what you are doing or it doesn't matter what is used.

I have a picture somewhere I'll try to find it again. Stick to your guns by all means, I was just as confident this was not going to be an issue either.

Personally, I've seen too many examples now of melted outlets and just saw Munro's video today as well. Just wasn't worth the risk to me to not buy the industrial grade outlet when I had to get this one replaced.

Edit: Here you go, sorry did not take a clearer photo but this is where it failed.

 

[DYohn]

The idea behind it is honestly good but in the end UL is another greedy cash hungry company. As someone who has been in charge of getting our products UL certified before I speak from experience. It's frustrating and sometimes they use standards that make absolutely no sense for the device being tested. Like insane inductive loads on an LED driver that LITERALLY cannot happen in the real world.

Oh I know. I was the UL Compliance Officer for my company for a few years. Bottom line is, scam or no, using UL, CE, CSA, or whatever listing agency is appropriate listed components is essential, and if you manufacture unlisted (or unrecognized) products you will find your market limited and your liability increased. As a home owner, be safe and buy marked components.

 

[theo1000]

I have a picture somewhere I'll try to find it again. Stick to your guns by all means, I was just as confident this was not going to be an issue either.

Personally, I've seen too many examples now of melted outlets and just saw Munro's video today as well. Just wasn't worth the risk to me to not buy the industrial grade outlet when I had to get this one replaced.

I'm following code. I think that is part you don't understand. If you follow code none of this will happen.

If you don't know what you are doing or to how to check what your electrician is doing, your $150 outlet will burn just as easily. It is all the same materials, you just pay for more cosmetic visual inspection after the machine scan, that's all.

- Was your wiring landed correctly with code mandated torque.
- Was your insulation kept intact
- Was there no kink or damage on the back end.
- Are you checking your lugs and re-torqueing down the connection every year. Including the circuit breaker.
- Are you doing annual maintenance inspections

Abdication of responsibility causes bad things to happen in you home. Take the time to read what code requires and follow it.

 

[Pioneer74]

Abdication of responsibility causes bad things to happen in you home. Take the time to read what code requires and follow it.

You can follow the code book to the "T" and still have bad things happen. The lighter receptacles were never intended to be used on continuous loads. The heavier constructed "industrial" receptacles might not even be foolproof for this application and this is where the NEC is going to have to step in and do testing and change requirements in future codes.

But what would I know. I'm only a Master Electrician.

 

[theo1000]

I have a picture somewhere I'll try to find it again. Stick to your guns by all means, I was just as confident this was not going to be an issue either.

Personally, I've seen too many examples now of melted outlets and just saw Munro's video today as well. Just wasn't worth the risk to me to not buy the industrial grade outlet when I had to get this one replaced.

Edit: Here you go, sorry did not take a clearer photo but this is where it failed.

That looks like a wire gauging and install problem. Do you have a picture of the wire and how it was landed.

 

[OON7]

I'm following code. I think that is part you don't understand. If you follow code none of this will happen.

If you don't know what you are doing or to how to check what your electrician is doing, your $150 outlet will burn just as easily. It is all the same materials, you just pay for more cosmetic visual inspection after the machine scan, that's all.

- Was your wiring landed correctly with code mandated torque.
- Was your insulation kept intact
- Was there no kink or damage on the back end.
- Are you checking your lugs and re-torqueing down the connection every year. Including the circuit breaker.
- Are you doing annual maintenance inspections

Abdication of responsibility causes bad things to happen in you home. Take the time to read what code requires and follow it.

I'm not disagreeing with you per se, and also not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I had a different experience and I've seen other examples... but no I haven't personally inspected these examples to say or know if code was followed.

Sandy's video today has real life examples from verified installations and had a Master Electrician on there. The argument they are making is that codes and standards should be updated for EV charging because they are seeing examples of damage, fire, (edit) melting, etc. from code compliant professional installations.

Based on my personal experience specifically with a damaged plug I think they may be onto something. Based on your experience you feel otherwise it seems, and that's cool by me. I only originally responded to show an example that it's possible for something to go wrong; not to question your, or anyone else's, ability to know and follow electrical codes.

 

[OON7]

That looks like a wire gauging and install problem. Do you have a picture of the wire and how it was landed.

Sorry no, I took those photos before I got it replaced and chucked the outlet in the trash.

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