Why is EVSE so expensive?

[OrchidMania]

Do you keep your evse plugged in all the time even when not charging? Wondering on the ghost power (If that’s the right term)

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[KevinS]

It is funny that people want to obsess about charger and installation costs when you bought a car that's pretty expensive and exclusive in the first place.

Leave the gun, take the cannoli. Wait. I mean... leave the mud flaps, get the good outlet.

 

[21st Century Pony]

Those are not metal "donuts". They are current sensors . I know because I built a Juice Box EVSE from a kit.

...both our statements are technically true haha. Thanks.

 

[yngwenli]

Back to expensive pricing and how to lower cost for one, can anyone post where the IRA extended the EVSE 30% tax credit? There is no reference to it on the IRS website:
https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8911

"The alternative fuel vehicle refueling property credit expired for refueling property placed in service after 2021. Do not report refueling property placed in service after 2021 on Form 8911 unless the credit is extended."


This article says it was extended as well:
https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605081/ev-tax-credit-inflation-reduction-act-2022-changes


BUT, daemonic3 shared that it was only valid for low income zip codes and it's not clear what zip codes:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/grizzl-e-charger-grrrr.22174/post-532160

I'm keeping my eye on holiday deals and more concrete (IRS updated guidance/docs) evidence that we can still get the credit in 2022+.

 

[Mirak]

Since an EVSE is not really a 'charger', but simply a power supply, why are they so pricey? The low-end ones are $500, and higher-rated ones, like the ChargePoint Home Flex, are $700. For some wires, cables, connectors, and circuitry in a plastic box? Or is it supply and demand?

It’s especially pricey when you consider that the perfectly good mobile charger is free.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Do you keep your evse plugged in all the time even when not charging? Wondering on the ghost power (If that’s the right term)

If you mean plugged into the outlet, then yes, leave it plugged in. Yes, there will be a phantom drain. Maybe a few watts. The 14-50 outlet was not meant to be plugged and unplugged daily.

 

[DYohn]

Back to expensive pricing and how to lower cost for one, can anyone post where the IRA extended the EVSE 30% tax credit? There is no reference to it on the IRS website:
https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8911

"The alternative fuel vehicle refueling property credit expired for refueling property placed in service after 2021. Do not report refueling property placed in service after 2021 on Form 8911 unless the credit is extended."


This article says it was extended as well:
https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605081/ev-tax-credit-inflation-reduction-act-2022-changes


BUT, daemonic3 shared that it was only valid for low income zip codes and it's not clear what zip codes:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/grizzl-e-charger-grrrr.22174/post-532160

I'm keeping my eye on holiday deals and more concrete (IRS updated guidance/docs) evidence that we can still get the credit in 2022+.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8911.pdf

 

[Fat Mach]

It is funny that people want to obsess about charger and installation costs when you bought a car that's pretty expensive and exclusive in the first place.

Leave the gun, take the cannoli. Wait. I mean... leave the mud flaps, get the good outlet.

I see it frequently when people talk about how over-priced Shelby's are from Shelby American. They have absolutely no clue what it takes to develop and sell products while staying viable through down turns and keeping the workforce happy. Living in a cost plus business model is a recipe for business disaster.

 

[theo1000]

It is funny that people want to obsess about charger and installation costs when you bought a car that's pretty expensive and exclusive in the first place.

Leave the gun, take the cannoli. Wait. I mean... leave the mud flaps, get the good outlet.

It not going to be that way overtime. Vast majority of EV's are going to be ~ $20,000 units.

Even now a large chunk of folks buy $5,000 to $10,000 EV's of short range. There is ~ 200,000 leafs out there for instance.

When I bought the volt I really could not afford a EVSE and charged at 110v for 3-4 years. Bought the cheapest units I could find and the cheapest install possible. I my area I think 95% + of folks are in that boat. When they ask me I always recommend either a 16amp or 32 amp unit. I fact in jan I helped a friend install a 16amp evse for under $250 all in. Working great.

 

[OrchidMania]

If you mean plugged into the outlet, then yes, leave it plugged in. Yes, there will be a phantom drain. Maybe a few watts. The 14-50 outlet was not meant to be plugged and unplugged daily.

I just watched the video on electrical issues with evse installs so I thought if I plugged/unplugged. I would lessen chance of overheating and burning house down. I only charge once ever 2 weeks. Currently still 120 charging Takes 2 nights to go from under 50% to 90 I think it’s too hot here to charge outside in daytime All of our connections are on outside of house. Even my new huge ss panel.

 

[mkhuffman]

Do you keep your evse plugged in all the time even when not charging? Wondering on the ghost power (If that’s the right term)

I think you are referring to "vampire drain" - the battery drains when the car is off. Rivian has this issue, and so does Tesla. Both can loose 2 kWh or more in battery charge sitting overnight. So they really need to be plugged in when off.

The MME does not have any vampire drain, and you can leave it unplugged for days and weeks without losing any measurable charge. That is something I think Ford did exactly right. It would frustrate me so much to have my car battery drain for no good reason.

 

[shelnian]

And an absolute SCAM a lot of times.

I toured a UL lab and observed multiple test setups and products under test. It is all very professionally done and not cheep. If there is any SCAM, it is the manufacturer not UL.

 

[mccdeuce]

It’s especially pricey when you consider that the perfectly good mobile charger is free.

For the following reasons:
1) Its an OK charger, plenty of stories of it having issues.
2) It does not have the ability to regulate amperage. (My max capability on my system is 24AMPs, not the 30AMPs that the Ford charger draws)
3) Some utilities provide cheaper electrical rates for connected chargers - must have the internet connection

There are plenty of reasons why someone may want an EVSE that is not the one provided by ford.
I personally would rather that Ford not provide a "free" EVSE that does not meet my needs and the price of the vehicle drops by $300.

 

[breeves002]

I toured a UL lab and observed multiple test setups and products under test. It is all very professionally done and not cheep. If there is any SCAM, it is the manufacturer not UL.

Oh they do their testing great in the Lab. I do not disagree with you there.

The problem is it just has to past the test once.

Most products don't even require the final design to actually pass to keep the UL stamp. You just have to say you'll change the final product so it passes and they don't ever check you on it. I know this from experience passing products through UL. You can modify it without telling them. The factory tours are a joke they don't inspect anything. They also use antiquated testing for modern electronics that makes absolutely no sense. One example is massive inductive loads on an LED light controller that would NEVER happen in the real world.

UL has its place and in the past has been a great safety tool but now they just want the initial payment from people (and recurring) and once the product passes it can be cheapened or made inferior to where it may not pass tests a second time. This happens often and its why we see things like the 50A outlets that melt because they can't sustain 80% of their rated current. Even though at UL they had to pass with 125% of their rated current!

 

[Fsisung]

Wow, only Tesla owners would pay $150 for a $10 part just because Lord Musk said so...

Do I detect a hint of Tesla envy?

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