😭😭😭 POST BATTERY CONTACTOR RECALL -- FIRST JUNCTION BOX FAILURE 😭😭😭😭

[AKgrampy]

Thanks for this info. Combining with reply from @scoopman, my guess is that both your MME have the upgraded redesigned part. My two cents:

1. The software fix is to prevent overheating of battery contactor. This software change is applied universally in MME made before and after 5/25 say 7/5. Since your MME left the plant before new software availability on 6/28, you have to get the software.

2. Ford must know and be confident the exact date of design/part change, that is 5/25/22. Ford knows they used the bad part 5/27/20-5/24/22. I got to trust Ford knows that for sure.

3. My guess is that MME built 5/25-6/28 have new parts and require software upgrade (I do not call "fix", since these cars should have the robust design to begin with).

4. MME built on and after 6/28 are CLAER in that they will have the new part and new software version that everyone should have after 6/28.

Please give me your opinion on this, since I am facing a dilemma of paying $5000 over MSRP for a MME premium built on 5/24 vs. wait for MME built after 5/25.
Any wisdom/help here is appreciated!

The software was installed on cars that went into production beginning 5/25. I base this on the few posters who mention their cars went into production prior to 5/25 but finished production after 5/25 and required the recall update. There is no official word on the new version of the HVBJB as to when it began being installed. There is a thread that discusses the HVBJB that may be indicative of when it became available. I seem to think it may have come into production prior to 5/25 but I can’t remember.

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[redranger04g]

My SR AWD Select failed at 8.4k miles. It happens to all trims.

There’s still 0 forum reported SR RWD failures. Not saying it can’t happen but anecdotal data is saying there’s no/low risk for SR RWD.

 

[4sallypat]

As much as I despise the schnozz of the i4, I can't take the exterior styling of the iX. I'd get a nice ICE car well before getting that.

Funny!
My wife who has an MME on order, looked at the BMW i4 and iX. She loved the iX.

Told by BMW dealer that we can order one - will take 6-9 months !

I like the MME price better than the iX price point....

 

[MGHTYDX]

Funny!
My wife who has an MME on order, looked at the BMW i4 and iX. She loved the iX.

Told by BMW dealer that we can order one - will take 6-9 months !

I like the MME price better than the iX price point....

You should check the BMW i4 forums where there are people who preordered and have yet to receive their cars!

 

[ARK]

My Select AWD SR failed

My SR AWD Select failed at 8.4k miles. It happens to all trims.

Sorry to hear about this, but I’m curious about your experience because I also have a SR AWD, and just generally for this issue.

Were you driving with a lead foot before it happened (not that there is anything wrong with that - it is a Mustang) and/or DCFCing often?

It’s worth pointing out that SR Mach-Es DCFC is rated at up to 115kW charging speed, compared to 150kW on the ER variants (including GTs).

Ford’s tech specs also say the SR AWD and SR RWD have peak power of 198 kW (which surprises me because I would think AWD should have a bit more and the fact that SR RWD hasn’t seen any failures seems to suggest this - maybe the power in the SR AWD is simply more likely to be called upon throughout the power curve and that’s the difference).

By comparison, the GTs have peak power of 358kW, the ER AWD trims 258kW, and the ER RWD trims 216kW.

My point being, it would be much easier to get 198kW flowing through a GT and much harder to do that with an SR where the SR will peak at 198kW whereas that’s only about 55% of the power the GT is capable of putting down.

So maybe something like half throttle on a GT is sending as much power through the HVBJB as full throttle on an SR if I am understanding this correct (and all the more shocking that they didn’t use a more robust part for the GT trims to begin with).

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

Perhaps you should read my first post.

Ok. I deserved that. I read words and didn’t pay attention to the photos. Thank You for pointing it out.

 

[mwtechy]

So is it certain it's WOT and DCFC causing the melting and defects in the metal causing to high of resistance or is it defects in the contactors not properly diffusing the arc after a high voltage shutoff eventually leading to welding? If it was the later I would assume the problem could be solved with software by in most cases limiting the immediate cutoff to gradual lowering of voltage power until a safer cutoff could be performed. I mean unless the driver is breaking or something. Still just trying to wrap my head around how they could put a part in that would melt under normal conditions.

Why can't someone post this kind of info on the contactors instead of everyone guessing non stop? I know some have insider information and all that but I would assume this type of info on the MME contactors are available publicly somewhere? Note these are just rando google results completely unrelated to MME.
https://www.te.com/usa-en/faqs/high-voltage-automotive-contactors-and-relays.html
https://www.te.com/commerce/Documen...DocNm=V23720-X0000-A001&DocType=DS&DocLang=EN

Edit: Finally found it here https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...f-the-hv-battery-contactors.19114/post-452630

 

[macchiaz-o]

Were you driving with a lead foot before it happened (not that there is anything wrong with that - it is a Mustang) and/or DCFCing often?

According to recent posts, he's a lead footer and roughly 15 DCFC per year, if that helps?

So maybe something like half throttle on a GT is sending as much power through the HVBJB as full throttle on an SR if I am understanding this correct (and all the more shocking that they didn’t use a more robust part for the GT trims to begin with).

Yes, maybe, but there remain other possibilities to explain failures.

For instance in @BigMach-E's case (and others'), it's possible it could have been an unrelated defect. The HVBJB is an assembly with several parts in it. And, his vehicle had its BECM replaced at the same time. Stuff happens, sometimes defects aren't systemic, or independent problems can bubble up to present the same end-user apparent symptoms.

 

[Progress]

Let me make a few very simplified predictions about failure rate of the contactors, not taking into account different rates for different models. Lets say a value of 100 for the robustness of the part means there will be no failures. If Ford under specified the value for the contactor to 90 +/- 5% manufacturing variability then all contactors will eventually fail. If they specified a value of 110 +/- 5% manufacturing variability than none would fail. If in the real world they specified a value of 110 but there was manufacturing variability of +/- 15%, then 5% will eventually fail. Since there appears to be a failure rate of about 0.5% per year, scenarios 1 and 2 cannot be correct. There are not enough failures for scenario 1 and too many for scenario 2.
So the questions come down to what is the failure rate and how will it manifest itself? If the failure rate is 5% and expresses itself linearly, then in 10 years there will be 5% failure, or 200 cars per year. If the failure rate expresses itself exponentially, those 2000 failures will happen much more quickly. If the failure rate expresses itself in a bell shaped or Gaussian manner, those failures would take much more than 10 years to happen.
If the failure rate is different than 5%, the predictions remain the same, just with a different number of cars affected.

 

[AhardFSU]

Funny!
My wife who has an MME on order, looked at the BMW i4 and iX. She loved the iX.

Told by BMW dealer that we can order one - will take 6-9 months !

I like the MME price better than the iX price point....

I too looked at the XI bc I do like it and the reviews have been pretty good. Just a tiny little problem for me…….the XI is like $35k more than what I paid for my 2022 RWD Select.

I like my current car payment better than what the XI would cost me.

 

[phil]

Let me make a few very simplified predictions about failure rate of the contactors, not taking into account different rates for different models. Lets say a value of 100 for the robustness of the part means there will be no failures. If Ford under specified the value for the contactor to 90 +/- 5% manufacturing variability then all contactors will eventually fail. If they specified a value of 110 +/- 5% manufacturing variability than none would fail. If in the real world they specified a value of 110 but there was manufacturing variability of +/- 15%, then 5% will eventually fail. Since there appears to be a failure rate of about 0.5% per year, scenarios 1 and 2 cannot be correct. There are not enough failures for scenario 1 and too many for scenario 2.
So the questions come down to what is the failure rate and how will it manifest itself? If the failure rate is 5% and expresses itself linearly, then in 10 years there will be 5% failure, or 200 cars per year. If the failure rate expresses itself exponentially, those 2000 failures will happen much more quickly. If the failure rate expresses itself in a bell shaped or Gaussian manner, those failures would take much more than 10 years to happen.
If the failure rate is different than 5%, the predictions remain the same, just with a different number of cars affected.

What you're saying is: you're as clueless as the rest of us.

 

[tesla2mme]

So sorry to hear about Mach n Chz!!!!!

Ford really needs to get this right. What did they give you in the interim to drive your family on the trip + back home?

 

[Regulus7]

If it is faulty manufacturing or testing from the parts supplier. Ford should be sueing to recoup the costs necessary to replace the part with a validly designed/spec'd part, as it was originally purchased to do, and for damage to the Ford brand and reputation. Trying to cover this up will create damage to the Ford brand that will be hard to recover from, especially since the Mach E is many customer's first experience with the Ford brand. This doesn't inspire confidence, or help re-assure customers who paid as much as they have for a Mach E that their money was well spent.

This is why the Ford Options program is good for us consumers. We can collect the $7500 rebate and get a lease like payment stream with the option of returning the car in 3-4 years. At that point the odds are very high there will be a repeat BEV buyer and I totally agree that if Ford botched the reliability that early Mach E adopters will just forgo the brand for another and likely never come back. So getting this right has a lot riding on the line for Ford and I hope they realIze it

 

[MomentoX]

Until Ford figures it out I’m taking the following actions:

1. No DC fast charge. I’m either charging at home (level 2) or if I have to charge at a public station I’m using a Chargepoint fast charge (50-60kwH max).

2. No full throttle accelerations.

3. I am not charging to 100%. Keeping it in the 85-90% range.

 

[Regulus7]

Until Ford figures it out I’m taking the following actions:

1. No DC fast charge. I’m either charging at home (level 2) or if I have to charge at a public station I’m using a Chargepoint fast charge (50-60kwH max).

2. No full throttle accelerations.

3. I am not charging to 100%. Keeping it in the 85-90% range.

Why #3. ? No reason to think 100% increases the risk of failure ?!

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