L2 charging speed recently dropped 33%

[kdryden99]

So far from the information gathered i really belueve that my first 2 hypothesis are correct but it leads to so many questions for example why only Job 1's? What changed between Job 1 and 2's? If this really is a temp issue then why is it affecting the car at 240v 40 and 48 amps and not L3 fast charging? Is it because of AC to DC transformer? I charged at a DCFC yesterday hit 80kwh no issue. I am happy the car can still charge at 40 amps even though it fluctuates, I'd be quite upset if we couldn't charge at home at all with 240v. Im just waiting for Ford to come out and say we have a problem so that i can have proof im not crazy (and to tell you all i told you so ?)

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[hawkeye3point1]

I think the data parameter is wrong in Car Scanner, what you're actually looking at is the on-board charger internal temperature. FYI the charge port is not liquid cooled.

You are probably right about Carscanner, and I agree that the Coupler is not actively cooled, but if the conductor is cooled in some way, ie. coupled to an isolated heat sync in the OBCC, Coupler temp. could be managed.

 

[Mach-Lee]

If this really is a temp issue then why is it affecting the car at 240v 40 and 48 amps and not L3 fast charging? Is it because of AC to DC transformer? I charged at a DCFC yesterday hit 80kwh no issue.

AC charging uses the on-board charger (SOBDM), which generates heat. DC charging does not use the on-board charger (external charger).

When you DC charge, the charger is in a nearby cabinet typically behind a fence. That's where all the heat is generated from the power conversion. Sometimes you can stand by the cabinets and feel the heat blowing out.

It's on-board charging vs. off-board charging. Completely different mechanism of charging the battery. The cooling issue only affects the on-board charger (AC charging only).

You are probably right about Carscanner, and I agree that the Coupler is not actively cooled, but if the conductor is cooled in some way, ie. coupled to an isolated heat sync in the OBCC, Coupler temp. could be managed.

The on-board AC charger is under the center of the frunk several feet from the charge port. The AC and DC cables from the port are not heat sinked or cooled in any way. The liquid cooling is only for the internal charger components.

 

[Shayne]

You are probably right about Carscanner, and I agree that the Coupler is not actively cooled, but if the conductor is cooled in some way, ie. coupled to an isolated heat sync in the OBCC, Coupler temp. could be managed.

I have seen the BCM temp at 215C when car correctly say -20. Just an app.

AC charging uses the on-board charger (SOBDM), which generates heat. DC charging does not use the on-board charger (external charger).

When you DC charge, the charger is in a nearby cabinet typically behind a fence. That's where all the heat is generated from the power conversion. Sometimes you can stand by the cabinets and feel the heat blowing out.

It's on-board charging vs. off-board charging. Completely different mechanism of charging the battery. The cooling issue only affects the on-board charger (AC charging only).



The on-board AC charger is under the center of the frunk several feet from the charge port. The AC and DC cables from the port are not heat sinked or cooled in any way. The liquid cooling is only for the internal charger components.

@kdryden99 first noted it and is in Canada. Do you think it is a heat issue? Looks to me like just reduced. Easy math never needed a display and it is taking longer. Use to be a steady 8 into the car. Something has changed when you wake up and it is still charging. Software bug across the board? Change is permanent?

sobdm This or This?

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[kdryden99]

AC charging uses the on-board charger (SOBDM), which generates heat. DC charging does not use the on-board charger (external charger).

When you DC charge, the charger is in a nearby cabinet typically behind a fence. That's where all the heat is generated from the power conversion. Sometimes you can stand by the cabinets and feel the heat blowing out.

It's on-board charging vs. off-board charging. Completely different mechanism of charging the battery. The cooling issue only affects the on-board charger (AC charging only).



The on-board AC charger is under the center of the frunk several feet from the charge port. The AC and DC cables from the port are not heat sinked or cooled in any way. The liquid cooling is only for the internal charger components.

I figured as much but you would figure that if it is indeed a temp sensor issue on the socket harness, that temp sensor would be affected regardless of ac or dc charging. In this case we can't determine what is the cause because both charging systems are treated separately. We have no idea what is causing this except that it's DC related and temp related, but it definitely feels like a software issue in which a threshold was changed.

For now we're all throwing darts hoping Ford yells bullseye. I'll see july 11th.

 

[Shayne]

I figured as much but you would figure that if it is indeed a temp sensor issue on the socket harness, that temp sensor would be affected regardless of ac or dc charging. In this case we can't determine what is the cause because both charging systems are treated separately. We have no idea what is causing this except that it's DC related and temp related, but it definitely feels like a software issue in which a threshold was changed.

For now we're all throwing darts hoping Ford yells bullseye. I'll see july 11th.

You mean AC charging related? No problems DC charging right? It is not temp related here I am pretty sure of that. If the cooling fan does not come on and the recirc pump is not working it is not a heat issue for why it now wants to charge at 32 amp. Charging software OTA update most likely. As Ford noted OTA updates making our cars work better. Meets my schedule, never in a huge rush but would also like to know why and if it is permanent due to hardware limitations or a bug that will be fixed.

 

[kdryden99]

You mean AC charging related? No problems DC charging right? It is not temp related here I am pretty sure of that. If the cooling fan does not come on and the recirc pump is not working it is not a heat issue for why it now wants to charge at 32 amp. Charging software OTA update most likely. As Ford noted OTA updates making our cars work better. Meets my schedule, never in a huge rush but would also like to know why and if it is permanent due to hardware limitations or a bug that will be fixed.

Yes exactly what I mean. And when i mean temp related i don't mean ambient I mean temp related to the charging equipment including the port which has a built in temp sensor.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I think it's worth mentioning Hyundai IONIQ 5 has also been experiencing a similar issue with charge ports overheating at 48A. Depending on software level, the port will heat up to 100-115ºC (212-239ºF) and either stop charging completely (bad), or derate down to 24A (50% of 48A) for the reminder of the charge session. The issue is poor pin contact with the J1772 plug. Here's what Hyundai's TSB says:

Poor contact between Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE) and the vehicle charging port may cause the port to overheat. Poor contact may be caused due to debris or contamination in the EVSE/charging port, excessive wear on the charger contacts, or the use of EVSE that do not meet SAE specifications or tolerances. When an overheating condition is detected, the vehicle will terminate the charging session. This bulletin provides instructions to update the Vehicle Charging Management System (VCMS) to mitigate this condition.

The VCMS is designed to monitor the charging port temperature and terminate the charging session if it detects that the charge port is overheating. The logic improvement in this VCMS update will downrate the charging current if an overheat condition is detected to regulate the temperature of the charging port and ensure continuous charging. If vehicles still experience intermittent charging failure after this update, inspect the customer’s EVSE and charging port.

I still haven't established if it's the port or the charger electronics overheating on the Mach-E, but having damaged pins in the charge port or a defective J1772 is something we should be aware of too. It may be similar causes with all the out-of-spec or worn out J1772s that are out there right now.

 

[Howard]

@Mach-Lee: Have you monitored your AC Charger coupling temperature prior to charging or during charging? I am interested in what you or others on forum are seeing for temperature of this parameter. I use MDX+ reader and car scanner app; I monitored this temperature during the first charge on my 2022 MME after it updated to 4.2.6. Prior to charge, parameter indicated 183F; during the charge, it peaked at 296F. MME charged just fine averaging 8.8kW charge rate; after about 20 minutes of charging, AC amps was cycling between 40 and 39A; DC amps dropped from 23.2A to 22.9A. No alarms or warnings during the charge. As soon as I stopped the charge, temperature started dropping immediately. Garage temperature was 79 to 81F. I checked the same temperature on my 2023 MME (not on charge) and it indicated 183F. The other temperature parameters that I routinely monitor seem to be indicating normally.

 

[kdryden99]

I think it's worth mentioning Hyundai IONIQ 5 has also been experiencing a similar issue with charge ports overheating at 48A. Depending on software level, the port will heat up to 100-115ºC (212-239ºF) and either stop charging completely (bad), or derate down to 24A (50% of 48A) for the reminder of the charge session. The issue is poor pin contact with the J1772 plug. Here's what Hyundai's TSB says:



I still haven't established if it's the port or the charger electronics overheating on the Mach-E, but having damaged pins in the charge port or a defective J1772 is something we should be aware of too. It may be similar causes with all the out-of-spec or worn out J1772s that are out there right now.

I very much doubt it would be worn out J1772's since this started happening with multiple cars after the dcfc update. That's too coincidental and too many cars affected to be a worn out port or as the tsb says a dirty port.

If anything that TSB indicates that indeed an issue with an update on the cars charging system can cause the issue we're experiencing.

 

[Maquis]

I very much doubt it would be worn out J1772's since this started happening with multiple cars after the dcfc update. That's too coincidental and too many cars affected to be a worn out port or as the tsb says a dirty port.

If anything that TSB indicates that indeed an issue with an update on the cars charging system can cause the issue we're experiencing.

I tend to agree. If the problem stemmed from charge part degradation, the occurrences should have started gradually cropping up and correlated with cars with more charging sessions (more miles). The fact that so many job 1s started exhibiting this on or after about June 5th points to some sudden change (software update).

 

[mkhuffman]

Well, I just discovered my car also has this problem. And I think it is related to the cooling of the internal charger as Lee suggested a while ago.

I parked my car in the driveway, in the sun with ambient temps of around 90 degrees. The car indicated 100 degrees on the display when I drove the car after charging, so the car was definitely hot.

About halfway into the charge I checked and saw this craziness:

Unfortunately I wasn't recording OBD data so I went to the car and started it in accessory mode to power up the modules needed to connect my phone. Within a minute of me doing that the charging rate stabilized and continued as normal:

I noticed the car was very quiet and I didn't hear the fan when I went out to connect the scanner. After the charging stabilized I noticed the shutters were open on the front of the car and a fan noise was audible, but not very loud. It is possible that fan was running and the shutters were open before - I wish I had made a more careful observation before I connected to the scanner. I didn't expect the problem to go away right after connecting the scanner.

When the car reached the target charge level (90%), I received a charge fault message in FP and the charging ring was blinking yellow.

If your car is doing this try turning on the power to see if that kicks the cooling on, like it appeared to do for my car.

Edit: I should have included that my MME is a Job 2, 2021. So this is definitely not isolated to Job 1 vehicles.

 

[OldEVGuy]

To add my experience with my Job 1 car. I finally decided to have the windshield/roof recalls done, so it's been at the dealers the past few days. Yesterday, when they were calibrating the windshield, the wrench light came on, and they saw the charging port was over 400 degrees. At about the same time, I got a notice on the app saying there was a powertrain malfunction/ AWD fault. I went to the dealer, and was able to talk with a technician. She was working on two Mach-E's that needed the whole charging port harness replaced. She thought mine might need the same thing done. Anyway, it's in line to be diagnosed next week.

As an update to my issue. They do have to replace the charging port harness. It’s supposed to be finished by the end of next week. The service advisor said mine is the third one they’ve done so far. He thinks it could lead to a recall situation.

 

[kdryden99]

As an update to my issue. They do have to replace the charging port harness. It’s supposed to be finished by the end of next week. The service advisor said mine is the third one they’ve done so far. He thinks it could lead to a recall situation.

So this could be a faulty harness that was existing from the beginning but only became apparent after the DCFC update. I wonder if it has any effect on the DCFC curve?

 

[josephyancey]

This all sounds similar to what I'm experiencing over here. Does anyone here have experiences with seemingly random "Plugged in Not Charging" errors? I'm thinking these two issues are related.

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