DC Fast Charging is always a disappointment.

[generaltso]

Supercharger has become the new Kleenex. Just go with it. Nobody likes the guy that says “I believe you mean tissue. Kleenex is a brand name.”

Maybe some day, but I don't think we're there yet. Anyone can use a Kleenex or a Band-Aid. Not everyone can use a Supercharger, so there's a good reason for the differentiation.

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[MachGT]

I use Electrify America stations almost exclusively. My average charging speed without preconditioning is 74-82kw between 10-80%. I occasionally get a 125-150kw peak at the very beginning for 1-3min. Charging speed on the Mach-E is terrible at best.

Battery charging pre-conditioning feels to me like the door close button on an elevator. You think it's doing something, but it really doesn't change. The only time I am using a fast charger is highway driving in the mountains. So the battery should be up to proper temp when I get to the charging station. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

[PA Bob]

I had pretty much the same experience with DCFC across the middle of Pennsylvania and NE Ohio last month. I have a standard battery. I used 150 KW fast chargers, but never got above 75–80. They were all EA chargers. At one station a person complained that he was charging at something like 30 KW. Would my car charge faster if I pulled up to a 350KW charger?

 

[AZBill]

I thought I read somewhere that the new EA station tells you how much the car is requesting. Can you confirm?

No, the new ones do not. At one point a few years ago EA had some of the newer Signet chargers displaying that, but then they took is off. I have never seen it on the new dispensers.

 

[dbsb3233]

I use Electrify America stations almost exclusively. My average charging speed without preconditioning is 74-82kw between 10-80%. I occasionally get a 125-150kw peak at the very beginning for 1-3min. Charging speed on the Mach-E is terrible at best.

Battery charging pre-conditioning feels to me like the door close button on an elevator. You think it's doing something, but it really doesn't change. The only time I am using a fast charger is highway driving in the mountains. So the battery should be up to proper temp when I get to the charging station. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Average speed is a hard way to compare charging speeds because each model/trim has a max charge curve profile. Yes, the first ~2 minutes on the MME often sees a high peak (~162kw under good conditions) but it's too short to even count. The part that's best compared is the the 10-40% area (excluding the first 2 minutes). That typically maxes out around 120-125kw on the MME ER (less with the SR battery). If you're getting significantly less than that in the MME, it usually means the battery is cold, or the station is having a problem and not delivering what it should. Or, it's simply a low power station.

Sometimes people don't realize that many non-EA stations are lower power. Like for instance, many Chargepoint DCFC units say they're 125kw. But they're often set up in pairs that only deliver 62.5kw each. Or they share power *some* power but not all. To compound that, even though the charger max power is listed in kW, it's usually really an amperage limit. And usually calculated based on a 400V battery pack. The Mach-E battery pack actually runs about 350V, so we loose some charging speed when the charger is amp-limited like that.

Example: a 50kw Chargepoint unit is really limited to 125A. A 400V battery pack charging at 125A is 50kW (400V * 125A). But the Mach-E will only get about 43kW on one of those (350V * 125A). We lose about 12% off the max power of the charger, unless that max power is well above the car's max (as is the case with EA when working right).

 

[thekat03]

I think I've just been fortunate with my routes. Been on tons of drives between Ohio and NY and this has been my typical charging experience with my GTPE over the last year. Knocking on wood now.

The route between northeast Ohio and Maine is decent for road tripping, and getting better. There definitely is some variability in quality of charging across the US and Canada.

 

[dbsb3233]

I had pretty much the same experience with DCFC across the middle of Pennsylvania and NE Ohio last month. I have a standard battery. I used 150 KW fast chargers, but never got above 75–80. They were all EA chargers. At one station a person complained that he was charging at something like 30 KW. Would my car charge faster if I pulled up to a 350KW charger?

No, both the 150s and the 350s offer more than the SR battery can take, so there should be no difference (if the chargers are working right).

I'm not as familiar with the SR battery, but IIRC the advertised max charge speed for that is 115kw (vs 150kw for the ER). I don't know what the charge curve on the SR looks like, but if it mirrors the ER pattern, I'd expect ~90kw between up to 40% SOC (after the first 2 minutes). But it may not work that way. Someone more familiar with the SR will need to weigh in. But it does illustrate that we need to be careful to specify ER vs SR when comparing experiences because there's a significant difference.

 

[MachGT]

Average speed is a hard way to compare charging speeds because each model/trim has a max charge curve profile. Yes, the first ~2 minutes on the MME often sees a high peak (~162kw under good conditions) but it's too short to even count. The part that's best compared is the the 10-40% area (excluding the first 2 minutes). That typically maxes out around 120-125kw on the MME ER (less with the SR battery). If you're getting significantly less than that in the MME, it usually means the battery is cold, or the station is having a problem and not delivering what it should. Or, it's simply a low power station.

Sometimes people don't realize that many non-EA stations are lower power. Like for instance, many Chargepoint DCFC units say they're 125kw. But they're often set up in pairs that only deliver 62.5kw each. Or they share power *some* power but not all. To compound that, even though the charger max power is listed in kW, it's usually really an amperage limit. And usually calculated based on a 400V battery pack. The Mach-E battery pack actually runs about 350V, so we loose some charging speed when the charger is amp-limited like that.

Example: a 50kw Chargepoint unit is really limited to 125A. A 400V battery pack charging at 125A is 50kW (400V * 125A). But the Mach-E will only get about 43kW on one of those (350V * 125A). We lose about 12% off the max power of the charger, unless that max power is well above the car's max (as is the case with EA when working right).

Great points. The next time i fast charge i am going to "pre-condition" using the nav, and report back.

 

[moparguy]

I average 65 on my select, even on a 350kw charger, the GT was slightly higher maybe 77-85, it's a joke, nothing near the 150 or 120 that they promote, if you need dcfc a lot, the Mach E is not the car you should buy.

 

[dbsb3233]

I average 65 on my select, even on a 350kw charger, the GT was slightly higher maybe 77-85, it's a joke, nothing near the 150 or 120 that they promote, if you need dcfc a lot, the Mach E is not the car you should buy.

I average about 95kw in my First Edition (AWD ER). My average would be higher if I did the EV-purist thing and only charged to barely more than needed for the next leg (like 10-60%), but I like a lot of safety buffer so I usually DCFC to 80% regardless of the distance to the next DCFC (unless I need even more, of course). That means my common charge is roughly 30-80% SOC. I usually get ~160kw for the first 2 minutes, then ~120 up to 40% SOC, then it gradually tapers from 120 down to 80 at around 60%, then sits at ~80 until it hits the cliff at 80%.

That's my good weather pattern, when the charger is working right. That slows in cold temps (<40F). I've never preconditioned since I use Android Auto for all nav. That's on 32,000 miles of road trips since Feb-2021. With a few notable exceptions, most of the EA stations I use are pretty good. But some are notoriously bad.

 

[Gloff]

No, both the 150s and the 350s offer more than the SR battery can take, so there should be no difference (if the chargers are working right).

I'm not as familiar with the SR battery, but IIRC the advertised max charge speed for that is 115kw (vs 150kw for the ER). I don't know what the charge curve on the SR looks like, but if it mirrors the ER pattern, I'd expect ~90kw between up to 40% SOC (after the first 2 minutes). But it may not work that way. Someone more familiar with the SR will need to weigh in. But it does illustrate that we need to be careful to specify ER vs SR when comparing experiences because there's a significant difference.

115kW for Job 1 SR cars with NCM Batteries
150kW for Job 2 SR cars with LFP, hence the drop in advertised 10-80% from 41 min to 33.

 

[moparguy]

I average about 95kw in my First Edition (AWD ER). My average would be higher if I did the EV-purist thing and only charged to barely more than needed for the next leg (like 10-60%), but I like a lot of safety buffer so I usually DCFC to 80% regardless of the distance to the next DCFC (unless I need even more, of course). That means my common charge is roughly 30-80% SOC. I usually get ~160kw for the first 2 minutes, then ~120 up to 40% SOC, then it gradually tapers from 120 down to 80 at around 60%, then sits at ~80 until it hits the cliff at 80%.

That's my good weather pattern, when the charger is working right. That slows in cold temps (<40F). I've never preconditioned since I use Android Auto for all nav. That's on 32,000 miles of road trips since Feb-2021. With a few notable exceptions, most of the EA stations I use are pretty good. But some are notoriously bad.

My average is charging to 80% with preconditioning and I am in socal, never high rates on neither cars, both 2022, one was build in March, one was build in August.

 

[bbulkow]

That’s makes a lot of sense and explains a lot. However, it still doesn’t explain the reason for the decrease at the same charge stations that were previously up as high as a steady 150. It’s as if they are governing them back now.

Yes. Two practical ideas.

First, get carscanner and an obd2 dongle, and begin to habitually look at the page that shows charging details. you will see if you are limited by the charger (likely) and by how much. You will start observing the patterns of different chargers and possibly different failure modes, although you will be speculating.

There are a million possible reasons. Wear and tear without maintainance. source problems (sharing of circuits).

Second, report! I think the easiest and most effective will be plugshare, which allows reporting of individual stations and speed pretty easy, and i would expect maintenance looks at plugshare. you can also try calling customer service for the network in real time. The squeeky wheel gets the grease!

when i tried this once with ea, they informed me they knew about the problem and had marked the charger offline in thier app, but had left it online if you walk up to it. This seemed a bit sad to me, because practically if you are at a bank of 4 chargers and you are trying to decide which to use, or to ask someone to swap with you, you really want to know what is fast and what is not, not broken vs working. But, i appreciate it is better to leave the charger on in case the station fills and someone is desperate.

Given the poor state of affairs at the networks, then, i propose plugshare every time.... it only takes a moment and you are waiting around anyway.

 

[Krimpy]

I'm starting to think the purpose of Electrify America is to make us regret basically killing VW's diesel program in America

Can’t say I disagree. Last weekend I was pulling 17kw at an EA charger. Worst part is I left home with a 225 miles on my charge but I couldn’t even go 170 miles because I had the heat on at 70 on 1. You need to do that just to keep the windows from steaming up in WI. Why they didn’t put heated windshields on these cars in America is beyond me.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

This week I charged on a newly installed EA 350kW station with no preconditioning and got 97.7 kW average between 17% and 80% SoC. 2022 Premium AWD ER.

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