And so it begins...

[Jimrpa]

How about this as a compromise? At locations with chargers of multiple capacities, how about if the charger display a message if a lower-rated charger is open and available?? For example: if I pull in and there are 3 chargers - Alpha 200 kw, Beta 200 kw, and Gamma 800 kw. If all 3 are open and I plug into gamma, before starting the charging session, the display says something like “Your vehicle can charge at its maximum rate at the Alpha and Beta stations. We recommend leaving this station open for higher capacity vehicles, when possible.” Then allow the user to continue the session or move to another station?

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[Vulnox]

How about this as a compromise? At locations with chargers of multiple capacities, how about if the charger display a message if a lower-rated charger is open and available?? For example: if I pull in and there are 3 chargers - Alpha 200 kw, Beta 200 kw, and Gamma 800 kw. If all 3 are open and I plug into gamma, before starting the charging session, the display says something like “Your vehicle can charge at its maximum rate at the Alpha and Beta stations. We recommend leaving this station open for higher capacity vehicles, when possible.” Then allow the user to continue the session or move to another station?

That would be great. It would be nice if the car itself can give some hints for all drivers. For example, you have a 350kW capable vehicle and are going on a long trip. There is a DCFC 100 miles into the trip, but then a gap for 200 miles of no other chargers, so even though you arrive at the 100 mile station at 70% battery, you want to charge to 85% just to give yourself a safety buffer. The car can use your estimate of arriving at 70% to say, even though you have a 350kW car, at 70% you won't see more than 170kW, advise using Station 1 or 2, etc.

I think you would see a much higher take rate if you can tell people what is best for the situation before they park. If someone is to the point of parking, plugging in, and waiting on the handshake, odds are they aren't going to unplug and move and repeat the process. If the cars can make recommendations then we will see big improvements.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

How about this as a compromise? At locations with chargers of multiple capacities, how about if the charger display a message if a lower-rated charger is open and available?? For example: if I pull in and there are 3 chargers - Alpha 200 kw, Beta 200 kw, and Gamma 800 kw. If all 3 are open and I plug into gamma, before starting the charging session, the display says something like “Your vehicle can charge at its maximum rate at the Alpha and Beta stations. We recommend leaving this station open for higher capacity vehicles, when possible.” Then allow the user to continue the session or move to another station?

I'm going to guess that once someone pulls in and get out of their car, they will not that the time to get back in their car and move to another spot.

 

[Rayne]

Yeah...no. Lets be real--you can't expect every single EV owner to be on forums like this or feel compelled to read up on "fast charging etiquette", or to even realize it even is a thing. There has to be both a concerted effort to increase cultural context (meaning EV culture knowledge beyond the typical EV crowd) and standardization/education from the car manufacturers and the charging providers to even make a real difference.

Signs like this--whether they're seen as educational or annoying--are not even from an official source. Why would any random EV owner decide to take heed? I It's great if individuals want to educate others but to make a blanket expectation that everyone comply is laughable.

Understanding and behavioral change comes from a very long process of repetition and enforcement from the providers/official sources themselves. And unless it's a Tesla charging station, it's very much the wild west at this point.

 

[leehinde]

Every time I have used a fast charger and talked to the people charging there they have no idea about the charge capabilities, or lack there of, that their car has. It's possible manufacturers don't want their customers to know because they're afraid that they might lose them to someone with better charge capabilities.

Or, it just doesn't matter to anyone but the enthusiasts.

The analogy for me is the dog park. When you go in (at least around here.) you see signs with all the rules/suggestions. Like clean up after your dog! Maybe you think since you're at a dog park it doesn't matter. Nope, it does and there are signs to remind you, in case you forgot/didn't know.

Same for charging locations, in my mind. Explain things to people, so they know the standards. But don't shoot anyone who doesn't care/needs more juice/etc.

 

[DevSecOps]

Signs like this--whether they're seen as educational or annoying--are not even from an official source. Why would any random EV owner decide to take heed? I It's great if individuals want to educate others but to make a blanket expectation that everyone comply is laughable.

I disagree. A few years ago at work there was one person who absolutely refused to flush the urinal. I had no idea who it was, but they had the most disgusting brown looking piss. I put a sign up that simply said "No one wants to see your excessively vitamin ridden piss, flush the urinal because you mom doesn't work here". Never saw brown piss again.

I would be the person to put a sign like this up in hopes of educating at least 1 person. We don't make behavioral or societal changes by ignoring the problem. If you don't like the sign, don't read it. Why is it that a sign in hopes of making the experience better for everyone triggers people? There's a huge me, me, me problem in this country.

 

[azerik]

That person was like "That's nasty, I'm going no where near that"

 

[Rayne]

I disagree. A few years ago at work there was one person who absolutely refused to flush the urinal. I had no idea who it was, but they had the most disgusting brown looking piss. I put a sign up that simply said "No one wants to see your excessively vitamin ridden piss, flush the urinal because you mom doesn't work here". Never saw brown piss again.

I would be the person to put a sign like this up in hopes of educating at least 1 person. We don't make behavioral or societal changes by ignoring the problem. If you don't like the sign, don't read it. Why is it that a sign in hopes of making the experience better for everyone triggers people? There's a huge me, me, me problem in this country.

I think that's a great example you posed. However with that example, the problem is readily visible and understood by all without the need for further education. It's human waste that is unsightly, smells bad, and is an immediate detriment to others. For those that don't know anything about charging rates, curves, etc., there's nothing in the current process that makes it's immediately clear (or even imply) that it's a (potential) detriment to others to use, or not use a fast charger in particular instances. And learning any of this takes at least a willingness to listen or read on the reasons why.

I agree with you that change can be effected even one person at a time. I agree that it should not be ignored. What I *am* saying is that it will take much more than signs from random people (which can be interpreted as being pissy rather than trying to help) to make a wholesale change in behavior across the footprint of all EV owners. The onus shouldn't rest with the general public to figure it out amongst themselves.

 

[DevSecOps]

I think that's a great example you posed. However with that example, the problem is readily visible and understood by all without the need for further education. It's human waste that is unsightly, smells bad, and is an immediate detriment to others. For those that don't know anything about charging rates, curves, etc., there's nothing in the process that makes it's immediately clear or imply that it's a (potential) detriment to others to use to not use a fast charger in particular instances. And learning any of this takes at least a willingness to listen or read on the reasons why.

I agree with you that change can be effected even one person at a time. I agree that it should not be ignored. What I *am* saying is that it will take much more than signs from random people (which can be interpreted as being pissy rather than trying to help) to make a wholesale change in behavior across the footprint of all EV owners. The onus shouldn't rest with the general public to figure it out amongst themselves.

Fair point, agree.

I just don't know a better way to educate people at this point who don't visit the forums. If dealerships won't do it then how's it supposed to happen?

Eventually I think all charge units will be 350kW and this will be a moot point, but we aren't there yet. Reality is that everyone should know that they shouldn't park in a spot when not charging, but that happens all the time. That should be common sense, and there's official signs for that. So, while I don't have a perfect solution for this charging problem, if we can change one person at a time it's better than none.

 

[Jimrpa]

I'm going to guess that once someone pulls in and get out of their car, they will not that the time to get back in their car and move to another spot.

One can hope ?

 

[Jimrpa]

I'm going to guess that once someone pulls in and get out of their car, they will not that the time to get back in their car and move to another spot.

Perhaps a tie it to an in car display so that the car directs you to the lower rated charger if it’s available and it’s all you need?

 

[cvk71]

Or, it just doesn't matter to anyone but the enthusiasts.

The analogy for me is the dog park. When you go in (at least around here.) you see signs with all the rules/suggestions. Like clean up after your dog! Maybe you think since you're at a dog park it doesn't matter. Nope, it does and there are signs to remind you, in case you forgot/didn't know.

Same for charging locations, in my mind. Explain things to people, so they know the standards. But don't shoot anyone who doesn't care/needs more juice/etc.

Most of the people were surprised by the info I was giving them and most of them had no idea of the different variables in cars, chargers, etc. When I showed them the rate of charge on the charger and warned them to watch for derated chargers the varied responses were interesting. I have had some friends talk to me about life with electric cars and when I tell them all of the stuff they need to know a couple of them said they weren't interested in one anymore. My own wife has no interest in one for herself because she said she doesn't want to deal with it and hates when we take my car on a trip. Wide acceptance of electric cars will not happen until they iron out some of the issues, which is unfortunate.

 

[DevSecOps]

I hope you guys realize the average ICE owner knows nothing about internal combustion engines either. Expecting newly converted EV owners to understand the physics and chemistry of EV battery charging curves is a bit of an over-ask.

That's not a good comparison. Liken it to grades of gas and we're talking. If you buy an Audi they tell you "only use supreme gas". If you buy a bolt they should tell you "only use a 50kW charge unit if possible".

There's multiple grades of gas, Nevada has 4 (87/89/91/93). There's no reason someone couldn't comprehend 50/150/350 charge units.

The problem is a lack of basic EV education, you don't need to be a mechanic to understand 3 numbers.

 

[Johnny572]

My Mach E tops at 161 for very short time. But my charging curve is better on 350…..than a 150. I proved this myself. Don’t need your info on this please. Not going to change my mind.
I don’t deal in what ifs….never have never will. Not going to use 350 on the chance a 800v EV shows up. One way to fix this charge more for 350. I don’t do this out malicious on 800v EVs…..please no hate!!!!

 

[DevSecOps]

My Mach E tops at 161 for very short time. But my charging curve is better on 350…..than a 150. I proved this my self. Don’t need your info on this please. Not going to change my mind.
I don’t deal in what ifs….never have never will. Not going to use 350 on the chance a 800v EV shows up. One way to fix this charge more for 350. I don’t do this out malicious on 800v EVs…..please no hate!!!!

?

You talk crap then say please no hate... absolutely hilarious.

We've proven the difference between the units to be in the realm of seconds over 30-40 minutes. If you have data that proves otherwise please provide it. We would all love to be educated by your findings. Since you don't deal in what-ifs, we don't either. Proof or bust.

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