Mike Levine on ADM

jimitoast

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So the number of shenanigans that I've actually seen from valid reservations is maybe 1.... There's normally other issues going on behind the scene.

As for the dealer model, it's not Ford who's completely at fault. Legally, Tesla and other "online only" mfgs can't sell in various states due to franchise laws. Second, the companies that Ford is being compared to have 1-4 total models, all EV.

We all want it to be better, but people often forget that it's far more complicated and many factors are at play.
Agree and I can understand Ford's predicament here as I have some relevant background. Times have changed and there are structural limitations to doing business the way they want (dealers, union restrictions and legacy costs, etc). Having said that, it is just a matter of time before Tesla or somebody else pays enough money to influence legislation to eliminate some of the legal impediments. Money is not leaving politics anytime soon and Tesla has it. Once that happens, the upstarts (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, etc) will have another advantage. Hopefully, Ford is treating this as a strategic imperative because I think it kills them if they don't fix it. If I had to buy an iphone through <insert the company that provided your worst customer experience>, Apple would not be where they are. Apple owns the user experience - end to end. Ford does not. That's a recipe for disaster.
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I think it's great that folks like Mike Levine and Emma Bergg have been helpful to those who have had issues and I certainly appreciate Mike's twitter comments to that effect that @DevSecOps highlighted. But I've seen some mischaracterizations of Mike on posts in this thread. He's not the head of a billion dollar company (Jim Farley is the CEO) nor does he appear to a member of the C-suite at Ford, at least as I understand how that term is generally used in large corporations (I work in one). I mean no disrespect to Mike or his accomplishments etc, and I'm not saying that he doesn't have an important job at Ford [he lists his title in LinkedIn as Director, North America Product Communications at Ford Motor Company (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelevine/)], but if you go to the Ford site and look at the leadership team, he is not listed there (nor is Emma Bergg or Darren Palmer): People | Ford Media Center. I want to emphasize that I'm not contradicting anything said about how best to ensure that we get what we were promised, I just wanted to clarify some minor points.
 
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I think it's great that folks like Mike Levine and Emma Bergg have been helpful to those who have had issues and I certainly appreciate Mike's twitter comments to that effect that @DevSecOps highlighted. But I've seen some mischaracterizations of Mike on posts in this thread. He's not the head of a billion dollar company (Jim Farley is the CEO) nor does he appear to a member of the C-suite at Ford, at least as I understand how that term is generally used in large corporations (I work in one). I mean no disrespect to Mike or his accomplishments etc, and I'm not saying that he doesn't have an important job at Ford [he lists his title in LinkedIn as Director, North America Product Communications at Ford Motor Company (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelevine/)], but if you go to the Ford site and look at the leadership team, he is not listed there (nor is Emma Bergg or Darren Palmer): People | Ford Media Center. I want to emphasize that I'm not contradicting anything said about how best to ensure that we get what we were promised, I just wanted to clarify some minor points.
But did I spell anything wrong or forget a punctuation? These are serious matters ?

I've corrected my post to reflect his D suite status and honestly, I didn't even bother checking what he was.
 

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What's X-Plan and under what circumstances would it not be "honoured"?
 


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Maybe it's just me but, at some point, the level of effort required to prevent and/or react to the variety of dealer shenanigans amounts to an excessive level of effort to do business with Ford. If we can't really do business directly with Ford then the dealer is embedded in the process. I don't care if Ford owns or controls the dealers. It's all part of my experience. If it sucks, I won't do business with Ford, period. If Ford can't get past this, they may be screwed. This is 2022, for F's sake. If my dealer tries to screw me, I am out. Principles matter.

Ford owns and controls 0 (zilch) dealerships I believe. I'm assuming it's not allowed sorta like separation of powers or something, but they really can't do a thing to dealers to force them on a price I don't think.

Again, I don't think it's purely a Ford problem, but a total legacy manufacturer/dealership structural problem for pretty much every car manufacturer outside of Tesla, Lucid, Rivian, Fisker.

These price changes happened with Toyota and the Rav 4 Prime, Mercedes and their EQS, Chevy Corvette, etc...

I guess bottom line is supply/demand and people like the MME or even a Tesla, but Tesla just jacks up the price for everyone by 10k in a year. I still can't believe people are buying Tesla's for 10k more, but maybe I'm just not a fan.
 

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What's X-Plan and under what circumstances would it not be "honoured"?
[/QUOT

There are several ways to qualify for X plan. Just do a search on this forum. I joined Mustang Club of America for 25 bucks and got it. For me, it was about 1K off the purchase price. Some dealers refuse to accept it, which makes no sense to me. Most will take it but verify first. There is a list on this forum as well of dealers who do not add ADM and accept X-plan.
 

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I didn't have any problem with the ordering process and contacted my dealer to get a signed purchase agreement. All the information is there on the Ford sight if people would just take a little time to read what is presented and make a decision. Sorry you have had such a problem with the dealer but in the future if a dealer will not give you a signed purchase agreement find another dealer.

From the Ford ordering sight, " You may be able to configure a Ford Mustang Mach-E vehicle (the “Vehicle”) through the Reservation Process (“Reservation”). By completing the Reservation Process, you are not ordering or purchasing a vehicle. The Reservation Process allows you to configure a Vehicle and pay the Reservation Deposit (“Reservation Deposit”) to Ford. Participation in the Program does not guarantee you vehicle delivery. You must contact a Dealer to discuss final transaction pricing, arrange any necessary financing, and complete your purchase of the Vehicle. Your Reservation does not guarantee a set price for the Vehicle. The Dealer sets the Vehicle price, which may differ from the MSRP. "

Again, I am amazed at how many people can not take a little time and do some research and planning before purchasing a $50,000 to $70,000 vehicle! But hey that's me and my opinion but it works for me.
Your opinion is right, but it's in the minority. For that reason, it stinks. It also stinks to pin this one purely on the end-user. Most of us have never purchased a car this way. Most of us know what it's like to go to the dealership to do anything, whether it was making a purchase or requesting an order. Websites usually offered suggested prices but not to the extent that Ford's did. And we all know of one automaker's website that does let you do the sales process online: Tesla. I think it's pretty easy to make a few wrong assumptions, and despite what fine text Ford may choose to add on their website, I think they're fully using the misleading language to their own benefit.

Know where Ford's website gets them into trouble? I think it's that line about "difference from MSRP." That tells you that if a dealer plans to charge a different cost it'll be listed there. You then pay your deposit based on all of the details that the website is telling you. What I thought at the time is that I'm basically showing good faith to purchase based on all of those details on the website, and locking things in. But the deposit doesn't really lock anything in. As I wrote before, "difference from MSRP" changed on my order even months after the dealer had already submitted it. If I didn't have that email from the dealer (and if they didn't choose to honor it), that would be my new price.

People who read this forum are wising up to the process and will now know to push for a purchase agreement, or at the very least, some sort of price agreement. But the bigger point is, why should they have to? Why is the pricing so fluid, despite having hard numbers listed on the website? And if dealerships aren't going to honor what's listed, then why isn't it standard to have the pricing agreement done at the time that the order is submitted? Cynically, I think I know why: dealerships can order a set number of cars for themselves, but if they have a customer behind an order then they can go beyond their allocated limit. If that customer then abandons their order, the dealership can still sell the car - and at that point it's a car on the lot, that can be marked up how ever they want, with little to no scrutiny from Ford. So it's entirely within their interest to give people nasty surprises in the hopes that they'll give it up.

None of this should be happening. It's not just a bad customer experience, it's borderline fraudulent - and for some of the stories on this forum, probably would classify as fraud.
 
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@Reign of Ravens do you have a copy of the order before and after the change? Did you modify the order after it was placed?

I have yet to see anyone with your claim of the ADM being added online after the fact. Not saying it's invalid, but could it be that you just didn't catch it originally?

As we've discussed in previous comments, leaving a deposit should be considered consideration to a legal contract. If you have proof that it was changed I would ask a lawyer friend to draft a letter to the dealer threatening breach of contract. Most of the time when someone's in the wrong legally a letter is all you need to get them to comply.
 

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@Reign of Ravens do you have a copy of the order before and after the change? Did you modify the order after it was placed?

I have yet to see anyone with your claim of the ADM being added online after the fact. Not saying it's invalid, but could it be that you just didn't catch it originally?

As we've discussed in previous comments, leaving a deposit should be considered consideration to a legal contract. If you have proof that it was changed I would ask a lawyer friend to draft a letter to the dealer threatening breach of contract. Most of the time when someone's in the wrong legally a letter is all you need to get them to comply.
Thanks for the message. In my case I am OK for now, the dealership has at least verbally told me that it's going to be MSRP regardless of what the website shows specifically because I have the email promising me as much from before I placed the order. And despite their unwillingness to give me the cost anchored in writing, I have it recorded (I know it makes me sound like a nut to have done that but the stories on this website have made me paranoid about what dealers try to pull). To answer some of your questions:

1) I didn't take a screenshot of the website when the ADM was listed as zero, so I'd have to go begging Ford to review their own internal records for help on that one if I ever needed that proof.

2) I am 99.999% sure that I didn't miss it. I say that because I had the email noting that no ADM would be listed, so at the time of the order I of course double-checked that. And as silly as it may sound, I usually log in once or twice a week to check the order status, and I'd flick down to the pricing mostly just for the satisfaction of noting that "difference from MSRP" was zero. That's also why it stood out when the number had changed about two months in, although it is certainly possible that it changed a bit before that.

Granted, I'd probably pick a fight with the dealer if the change occurred after the order were already made. I think you'd have grounds to get them to back off, but it might be a harder fight compared to the situation I have. In my case, they could be accused of bait and switch tactics if they didn't honor it. All the same, I'll keep talking about it because it's just another thing people seem to need to be on their guard against in this process.
 
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Thanks for the message. In my case I am OK for now, the dealership has at least verbally told me that it's going to be MSRP regardless of what the website shows specifically because I have the email promising me as much from before I placed the order. And despite their unwillingness to give me the cost anchored in writing, I have it recorded (I know it makes me sound like a nut to have done that but the stories on this website have made me paranoid about what dealers try to pull). To answer some of your questions:

1) I didn't take a screenshot of the website when the ADM was listed as zero, so I'd have to go begging Ford to review their own internal records for help on that one if I ever needed that proof.

2) I am 99.999% sure that I didn't miss it. I say that because I had the email noting that no ADM would be listed, so at the time of the order I of course double-checked that. And as silly as it may sound, I usually log in once or twice a week to check the order status, and I'd flick down to the pricing mostly just for the satisfaction of noting that "difference from MSRP" was zero. That's also why it stood out when the number had changed about two months in, although it is certainly possible that it changed a bit before that.

Granted, I'd probably pick a fight with the dealer if the change occurred after the order were already made. I think you'd have grounds to get them to back off, but it might be a harder fight compared to the situation I have. In my case, they could be accused of bait and switch tactics if they didn't honor it. All the same, I'll keep talking about it because it's just another thing people seem to need to be on their guard against in this process.
By all means, you're free to speak about it as much as you like.

I just wish to remind people that 60k MMEs have been ordered and there's maybe 10 people that "might" have legitimate claims like yours. That amounts to a .016% chance that it'll happen.

Most claims of ADM are on dealer stock sales, which while crummy, is perfectly within their right.
 
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Your opinion is right, but it's in the minority. For that reason, it stinks.
Wow, sounds like you have a major case of victimhood going on here.

Again while I sympathize with you for having a bad dealer experience I'm not going to ever agree with you when you don't do your proper due diligence when making such a large purchase. In ordering the Mach E online you literally have to agree to the Ford terms and conditions which clearly says the dealer sets the price.

This goes back to my original comment that you felt a need to comment on, get a signed purchase agreement as to price of anything you are going to buy. It still amazes me how many people don't do this when purchasing a $50,000 to $70,000 automobile and then wonder why things go south!

Bottom line David, you have to decide in life if you are going to be a wolf or sheep and be a victim. I know which one I am and you can decide what you want to be from now on.

Best of luck in your Mach E purchase, hope it all works out for you.
 

nvabill

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By all means you're free to speak about it as much as you like.

I just wish to remind people that 60k MMEs have been ordered and there's maybe 10 people that "might" have legitimate claims like yours. That amounts to a .016% chance that it'll happen.

Most claims of ADM are on dealer stock sales, which while crummy, is perfectly within their right.
Agreed
 

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Agree and I can understand Ford's predicament here as I have some relevant background. Times have changed and there are structural limitations to doing business the way they want (dealers, union restrictions and legacy costs, etc). Having said that, it is just a matter of time before Tesla or somebody else pays enough money to influence legislation to eliminate some of the legal impediments. Money is not leaving politics anytime soon and Tesla has it. Once that happens, the upstarts (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, etc) will have another advantage. Hopefully, Ford is treating this as a strategic imperative because I think it kills them if they don't fix it. If I had to buy an iphone through <insert the company that provided your worst customer experience>, Apple would not be where they are. Apple owns the user experience - end to end. Ford does not. That's a recipe for disaster.
originally you did have to buy an iPhone thru AT&T in the US
 
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originally you did have to buy an iPhone thru AT&T in the US
Ummm, this is not at all true. When the iPhone was launched it was in partnership with Cingular wireless. This was largely because of the popularity of Cingular and technical limitations with the radios preventing them from being used on CDMA networks.

Even then, the iPhone was available directly from Apple, it just couldn't be activated on any other network other than Cingular. (cited)
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