Real condition winter test Mach-E vs Tesla vs Audi E-Tron

[pt19713]

I am the guy who organized this winter condition test.


I am the guy who organized this winter condition test. Be careful with the total battery capacity (which is a constant) and the usable battery capacity which can change depending on outside temperature or degradation overtime. So we know that the total capacity of the Mach-E big battery is 98,8 kWh ... the Tesla Model Y LR and Model 3 LR is 75 kWh TOTAL capacity. The usable capacity is lower than that.

I just can't wait to repeat the same test during summertime weather ... I'm pretty sure the range difference between the Model Y and Mach-E will be quite higher since the heat pump on the Y will give it zero advantage ... making the efficiency difference also lower IMHO.

No, in the 3 & Y it's a 77.8 kWh pack, 75.2 kWh usable, 3.4 kWh reserve (roughly 71.8 kWh when the UI displays 0%).

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[littlD]

yeah, but they didn't. now for the roof. Yeah, it went.....................bye-bye.

Good to see you guys have a sense of humor! I was hoping...

 

[RoulezElectrique]

Do we know how many miles are on the Teslas used in the test? We all know batteries degrade with time and usage, so the testers are comparing a brand new Mach-E with well used and older Telsas. It seems to me a better test would be comparing brand new cars from both companies. Regardless, I find the results very reassuring because I agree that the Mach-E is a much more attractive car, inside and out. Especially inside. I really don't like the interior of the 3/Y, and is the primary reason I prefer the Mach-E. It is great to look good on the outside, but it is what is inside that counts. ;-) Especially because that is where you sit when you are on that 600 mile road trip.

Yes, mileage on each car is specified:

Mach-E 2021 : ~1 000 KM
Model Y 2020 : 20 500 KM
Model 3 2019 : 44 500 KM
e-Tron 2019: ~10 000 KM

Last time I checked battery degradation on the Model 3, it had about 6.94% battery degradation (With ODB2 tool and Scan My Tesla). That was in july 2020 ... I will check both the Y and 3 this weekend.

Tesla 3 and Y are known to degrade quickly ... I suspect that frequent V3 Supercharging (up to 250 kW) and a high ratio of usable capacity vs total capacity accelerates battery degradation.

Here is Scan My Tesla report of the Model 3 battery health taken last July.

Is there a similar battery health info software for the Mach-E?

 

[RoulezElectrique]

No, in the 3 & Y it's a 77.8 kWh pack, 75.2 kWh usable, 3.4 kWh reserve (roughly 71.8 kWh when the UI displays 0%).

Ok noted ... just confirmed when I digged out my own Scan my Tesla screenshots!

 

[Accord07]

Do we know how many miles are on the Teslas used in the test?

Mach-E: 1,000 km
Model Y: 20,500 km
Model 3: 44,500 km
e-tron: 10,000 km

Disclosed around the one minute mark of the video.

 

[RoulezElectrique]

I confirm I took delivery of the Model Y in July 2020. Here's the Scan My Tesla Screenshot when it was brand new!

 

[supertramp]

I am the guy who organized this winter condition test.


I am the guy who organized this winter condition test. Be careful with the total battery capacity (which is a constant) and the usable battery capacity which can change depending on outside temperature or degradation overtime. So we know that the total capacity of the Mach-E big battery is 98,8 kWh ... the Tesla Model Y LR and Model 3 LR is 75 kWh TOTAL capacity. The usable capacity is lower than that.

I just can't wait to repeat the same test during summertime weather ... I'm pretty sure the range difference between the Model Y and Mach-E will be quite higher since the heat pump on the Y will give it zero advantage ... making the efficiency difference also lower IMHO.

Sure - that's why I specifically pointed in my calculations, that useable battery capacity of Mach E is 88 kWh, not 98.8.

 

[DBC]

From my perspective, I think some people are getting too defensive. We are all here because, for many different reasons, we like the Mach-E. Does it mean we all have to agree all the time? I hope not. I think SteelMach makes some really good points, and his conclusions are reasonable. Of course, the conclusions are his opinions and it is possible for fans of the Mach-E to have different opinions, I hope.

How is range in miles an opinion? They drove the vehicles under roughly the same conditions. One got more range. One got less. Where is there room for opinion?

All he's saying is the Teslas have less range but are more efficient. That is a fact. But you can't claim that the Teslas got more range -- when they get less -- because it's more efficient.

If you really care about efficiency get a Chevy Bolt. It blows all these vehicles out of the water. (When I pointed this out to him his response, which was a non-response, was that he hadn't purchased a Bolt. This was relevant how? I don't own a Taycan or an e-tron but it's a fact that they will charge faster than any Tesla or the MME).

But there is a context which, if you have been lurking, you should know about. It has run this way:

Tesla Fanboys: The MY gets 56 miles more range than the MME so it's better. (This is based on the EPA ranges).

Edmunds/Other Real World Tests: The MME get more real world range.

Tesla Fanboys: The MY may not get more range is certain conditions but in cold weather they will get more range because they have heat pumps, and the MME can't compete unless it also has a heat pump.

This Test: The MME gets more range in cold weather.

So now the Tesla fanboys will move on the superchargers. ? ? ? That's fine but when the arguments change but the conclusions don't, you don't have opinions or arguments. You have a conclusion in search of evidence.

 

[quitepossibly]

I didn't watch the video. Did the original poster do incorrect translation, or did the content creator do bad math? Supertramp's numbers are correct and show that if all cars were fully drained, assuming zero battery degradation, that the Y and 3 have longer distance in the test conditions.
Mach-E: 2.59 mi/kWh x 88 kWh = 228 miles
Model Y: 3.55 mi/kWh x 75 kWh = 266 miles
Model 3: 3.36 mi/kWh x 75 kWh = 252 miles
E-Tron: 2.20 mi/kWh x 99 kWh = 218 miles

The winner here is actually the Audi e-tron. It pretty much delivered on its EPA range even in the cold. It should be said that the e-tron also has a heat pump.

 

[RoulezElectrique]

The winner here is actually the Audi e-tron. It pretty much delivered on its EPA range even in the cold. It should be said that the e-tron also has a heat pump.

The eTron is top luxury ... the only one that comes with massage service ... love it!

 

[dbsb3233]

The winner here is actually the Audi e-tron. It pretty much delivered on its EPA range even in the cold. It should be said that the e-tron also has a heat pump.

Actually it came in 4th out of 4 on the main number -- range.

But yeah, there's other aspects where each vehicle shines vs the others.

 

[Woeo]

Test course: Trois-Riviéres to Montmagny to Neuville, total distance 285 km

Audi e-tron: they did not let it run through the entire course without recharging because it was cutting too close. Actual distance travelled was 253 km when SOC was 12%. Energy consumption was 28.2 kWh per 100 km (or 2.20 mile/kWh)

Tesla Model Y: SOC was 20% after 285 km, energy consumption was 18.5 kWh per 100 km (or 3.36 mile/kWh)

Tesla Model 3: SOC was 20% after 285 km, energy consumption was 17.5 kWh per 100 km (or 3.55 mile/kWh)

Ford Mach-E: SOC was 22% after 285 km, energy consumption was 24 kWh per 100 km (or 2.59 mile/kWh)

Something is wrong with the SOC at the end of the course for either Model Y or Model 3, they cannot possibly have exactly the same percentage of battery charge left and yet have a 5-6% difference in efficiency, unless their actual usable battery capacities were off by exactly the same amount.

One thing is clear though: it does not demonstrate that heat pump is the greatest invention in history.

To be fair we don't know how much worse the Tesla would perform without the heat pump.

 

[Woeo]

Because this is a tie at best.

People who say "Mach-E won" have never used a BEV in the real world, I have to believe that, because otherwise they're just pretending not to so they can think they won a meaningless internet argument that they created by arguing with math.

This test proves who can drive 227 miles or 221 miles. Hooray, Mach-E won.

If you have a destination that's *exactly* 227 miles away, be happy you have a Mach-E, if you had a Model Y you'd be stranded 6 miles before.

But, if you have to go 600 miles (far more reasonable), then sure, you can stop 227 miles in if you have a Mach-E. That Tesla behind you had to exit 6 miles ago.

Now you have to replenish 40% more energy than that Tesla does in order to do your next 227 miles.

As you sit at the charger, you see that "shorter range" Tesla fly by on the interstate, he's back on the road.

At the end of 600 miles, sure, you stopped at mile 227, 454, and then arrived. He stopped at mile 221, 442, and then arrived.

But he got there half an hour earlier, because he had to put in 40% less electricity at those two stops.

This is why LeMans is not a 1 lap race, and it's not about setting the speed record, or even the distance record. It's a 24 hour race, and it's about how far you can go in the time. The fastest car, the biggest gas tank cars, they're not the ones that win - it's the ones that are fast, long range *and* efficient that win.

IGNORE

 

[StephanHR]

IGNORE

thats not exactly ignore

 

[mr_raider]

To be fair we don't know how much worse the Tesla would perform without the heat pump.

Well the we have the internal comparison between the Y with and the 3 without heat pump. The difference is minimal. They tested at -7 with the HVAC at 20C.

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