Smart Solar Charging

[ridgebackpilot]

Hey Michael, thought I would share yesterday's energy figures. Since you are familiar with the Tesla app, thought I would post these instead of ones from the Emporia app.

Yesterday I was out with my parents most of the day so I didn't have the A/C set as cool as I would have if I were home. It was still running quite a bit though as it was 90+ yesterday. I also didn't charge my car so there wasn't as large of a power draw as there would have been if I were home.

Mark: That's an impressive one-day record! I'm only able to make about 76 kWH from my panels on sunny days this month. But that's usually enough to stay off-grid all day, charge my EVs, and even send some back to the grid.

Living close to the coast, I don't have central AC but will probably turn on room air conditioners during the height of the summer here. Since I only recently expanded my system to 36 panels, I don't know how long I'll be able to stay off-grid. I'm guessing only for a few months during peak solar season. My panels generally seem to make about one-quarter the power in December that they make in May and June.

We do get frequent grid outages here due to both winter storms and summer planned PGE rolling blackouts. So battery backup is useful not just for load shedding.

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[markboris]

Mark: That's an impressive one-day record! I'm only able to make about 76 kWH from my panels on sunny days this month. But that's usually enough to stay off-grid all day, charge my EVs, and even send some back to the grid.

Living close to the coast, I don't have central AC but will probably turn on room air conditioners during the height of the summer here. Since I only recently expanded my system to 36 panels, I don't know how long I'll be able to stay off-grid. I'm guessing only for a few months during peak solar season. My panels generally seem to make about one-quarter the power in December that they make in May and June.

We do get frequent grid outages here due to both winter storms and summer planned PGE rolling blackouts. So battery backup is useful not just for load shedding.

Agree with all you said Michael. Also, I don't produce nearly as much during the winter either.

Typical Sunny Summer day

Typical Sunny Winter day

Typical Coudy, Rainy winter day

 

[jlauro]

I didn't know you couldn't send power back to the grid.

Yes I think you are right and down the road, I am betting we won't get any credit for power we send back to the grid.

I doubt it will completely go away. If it does, more people will go completely off the grid and avoid the access fee. I know it would mean putting up more panels and probably have to double my battery bank, and cost more than the saving from being off grid, but it's the principle of the thing...

That said, right now it's basically 1:1 where I am but time of day applies (and so I get better than 1:1, as I can shift my pull from grid to night when rates are low and push to grid during the day when rates are higher). What probably will go away is the equal exchange rate where you can use the grid as a 0 cost battery.

 

[DevSecOps]

I doubt it will completely go away. If it does, more people will go completely off the grid and avoid the access fee. I know it would mean putting up more panels and probably have to double my battery bank, and cost more than the saving from being off grid, but it's the principle of the thing...

That's what I've done, no interconnect and considered off grid, but I'm still grid tied.

The reason I think buy back will go away, especially in California, is because there's a break point where they won't be making enough money to maintain the infrastructure if buy back remains a thing. As more people adopt solar, the closer we get to that point. Politicians are far too invested in power generation to loose money.

 

[ridgebackpilot]

I doubt it will completely go away. If it does, more people will go completely off the grid and avoid the access fee. I know it would mean putting up more panels and probably have to double my battery bank, and cost more than the saving from being off grid, but it's the principle of the thing...

That said, right now it's basically 1:1 where I am but time of day applies (and so I get better than 1:1, as I can shift my pull from grid to night when rates are low and push to grid during the day when rates are higher). What probably will go away is the equal exchange rate where you can use the grid as a 0 cost battery.

I agree we’ll probably continue to be able to sell our excess solar power back to the grid. After all, the grid needs the juice, especially in summer heatwaves so all those Angelenos can run their AC!

What I can’t understand is the logic applied by the CPUC in reducing what we get paid for excess solar power (NEM 2.0->NEM 3.0). Somehow they were persuaded that poor people are subsidizing solar power being generated by wealthier people? Come again?!

We all have to buy our power from the same utilities, and there are programs that reduce electricity rates for people living close to the poverty line. I don’t get how ratepayers are somehow subsidizing the energy that solar customers send back to the grid. The power that we all buy has to come from somewhere!

Most existing solar customers in California, including me, are grandfathered into the more lucrative NEM 2.0 or 1.0, at least for a while. But by lowering the price that utilities pay for excess solar power, the CPUC has lengthened payback times and thus reduced the incentive to install rooftop solar.

 

[kindofblue]

I pretty much follow your current plan. I have a 8kW with two Powerwall's and one EV the Mach-E. Once the Powerwall's are close to or at 100%, I will charge my Mach-E usually with a slower amperage. Especially when its hot out and we are using AC. My city utility rate is .9kWH anytime. Unfortunately I am not at home most weekdays.

It definitely takes some work but charging with solar is the way to go. I ordered my solar before I had an EV and my city only allows a system size of 100% of the past year usage. Not worth putting in another 8kW system and another 1 or 2 Powerwall's.

I'll be interested in what others say. I believe what we are doing is the only way unless you buy a huge solar system. I plan on selling my Mach-E or turning it in under the hybrid loan/lease program. It has too many issues. I might get a BMW i4 M50 which has a two year Electrify America plan.

We have both an i4 40eDrive and a 2022 MME Premium. The i4 is a great car and EV. You might consider though whether you really need the extra power of the M50 or the AWD. the 40eDrive is 5.5" 0-60 according to BMW but people on the i4 forum have bested that by about a half second. The 40 has a shorter waitlist if there's any at all (at MSRP and maybe a bit less) while the M50 is a months long wait.

 

[skiingj]

We have both an i4 40eDrive and a 2022 MME Premium. The i4 is a great car and EV. You might consider though whether you really need the extra power of the M50 or the AWD. the 40eDrive is 5.5" 0-60 according to BMW but people on the i4 forum have bested that by about a half second. The 40 has a shorter waitlist if there's any at all (at MSRP and maybe a bit less) while the M50 is a months long wait.

I really need the speed lol, but more important is the AWD. I Ski in Tahoe and do not like driving my wives car. My MME is RWD which I regret. I am glad you like the i4. Good to hear.

 

[engnrng]

I agree we’ll probably continue to be able to sell our excess solar power back to the grid. After all, the grid needs the juice, especially in summer heatwaves so all those Angelenos can run their AC!

What I can’t understand is the logic applied by the CPUC in reducing what we get paid for excess solar power (NEM 2.0->NEM 3.0). Somehow they were persuaded that poor people are subsidizing solar power being generated by wealthier people? Come again?!

We all have to buy our power from the same utilities, and there are programs that reduce electricity rates for people living close to the poverty line. I don’t get how ratepayers are somehow subsidizing the energy that solar customers send back to the grid. The power that we all buy has to come from somewhere!

Most existing solar customers in California, including me, are grandfathered into the more lucrative NEM 2.0 or 1.0, at least for a while. But by lowering the price that utilities pay for excess solar power, the CPUC has lengthened payback times and thus reduced the incentive to install rooftop solar.

I am supposed to be on NEM 2.0, with an annual settlement, typically getting a few $hundred each year. Last month, in month 2 of my NEM year, I was billed over $80. I generated 150 kWh more than I used and my settlement is supposed to be annual. I am being robbed. Rant over. Now, what do I do to compensate for the robbery?

I have 3 Powerwalls self-powered with 28% reserve, about 14 kW peak solar arrays, ground mounted. My batteries were typically full by noon each day with the afternoon production going to the grid and I used to charge my cars overnight with off-peak rates. So this month I started setting one of my 3 EVs to start charging a couple of mornings each week. Now, on those days, my batteries are fully charged by late afternoon, as is my car! No more sending negative worth electrons to the grid. Powering through the evening hours and typically all night on the battery storage, I am doing my own net metering 3 to 4 days a week. Takes a bit more effort but at least this way, I don't get charged for sending electrons to the grid.

 

[ridgebackpilot]

I am supposed to be on NEM 2.0, with an annual settlement, typically getting a few $hundred each year. Last month, in month 2 of my NEM year, I was billed over $80. I generated 150 kWh more than I used and my settlement is supposed to be annual. I am being robbed. Rant over. Now, what do I do to compensate for the robbery?

I have 3 Powerwalls self-powered with 28% reserve, about 14 kW peak solar arrays, ground mounted. My batteries were typically full by noon each day with the afternoon production going to the grid and I used to charge my cars overnight with off-peak rates. So this month I started setting one of my 3 EVs to start charging a couple of mornings each week. Now, on those days, my batteries are fully charged by late afternoon, as is my car! No more sending negative worth electrons to the grid. Powering through the evening hours and typically all night on the battery storage, I am doing my own net metering 3 to 4 days a week. Takes a bit more effort but at least this way, I don't get charged for sending electrons to the grid.

Great minds think alike! I'm using essentially the same program with my system of 3 Powerwalls, 3 EVs, and about 75 kWH solar production per day in summer.

You might consider getting an Emporia Level 2 EVSE, which when paired with an Emporia energy monitor, can automatically charge your EVs with excess solar energy. That would save you the effort of watching your Powerwalls every day and manually initiating charging of your cars.

 

[engnrng]

Great minds think alike! I'm using essentially the same program with my system of 3 Powerwalls, 3 EVs, and about 75 kWH solar production per day in summer.

You might consider getting an Emporia Level 2 EVSE, which when paired with an Emporia energy monitor, can automatically charge your EVs with excess solar energy. That would save you the effort of watching your Powerwalls every day and manually initiating charging of your cars.

I am looking into that! Thanks for the suggestion!!

 

[woody]

That's crazy! $300K liability insurance just to connect to the grid?! Talk about a disincentive to install rooftop solar...

Here, PGE's biggest liability isn't rooftop solar but their old transformers and other infrastructure that tend to start wildfires in remote areas.

Geez, does one really believe COGUtilities would want to "disincentive" (aka prevent or discourage) residential solar? I'll be jiggered.

 

[ridgebackpilot]

Geez, does one really believe COGUtilities would want to "disincentive" (aka prevent or discourage) residential solar? I'll be jiggered.

Well, I’ll be sheep-dipped! In many places, utilities and governments actively encourage rooftop solar with rebates, incentives, and tax credits. You just have to live someplace that actually cares about renewable energy!

 

[woody]

Well, I’ll be sheep-dipped! In many places, utilities and governments actively encourage rooftop solar with rebates, incentives, and tax credits. You just have to live someplace that actually cares about renewable energy!

Really?
Unfortunately, I am unable to afford inter-galactic transport to "someplace".
Colorado is a CARB state which simply boils down to the fact that we can now purchase any EV.
Local rebates, incentives are for unavailable/undesirable appliances or devices which give the utility company control over you/them. Still have the federal tax credits, but the utility company roadblocks are viewed as unsurmountable by many. Only a brave few dare challenge them.
Solar installers are controlled by the utility company, have very poor business models, overcharge to extreme and have very little in the way of knowledge or skills beyond throwing some solar panels on a roof.
Our representatives still build their personal wealth from the same sources as elsewhere. They and the "regulatory" agencies they oversee allow the utility companies and other nefarious entities to run roughshod over anyone who gets in their way. Big surprise.
As a result, comparatively no residential solar here in the land of 300+ days of sunshine.

 

[Anthropod]

I too have an emporia, love it. Wish I had some batteries, but with net metering I’m not sure if the cost would warrant it. New to the car thing, currently my wife just plugs it in when she gets to our clinic. Based on the curve should I change this?

 

[ridgebackpilot]

I too have an emporia, love it. Wish I had some batteries, but with net metering I’m not sure if the cost would warrant it. New to the car thing, currently my wife just plugs it in when she gets to our clinic. Based on the curve should I change this?

Wow, you're making a lot of solar energy each day! If you can charge your EV at midday when you're making a lot of power, you'll definitely maximize your savings. But of course if you have free charging at your workplace, then that's the best option of all!

Today most Level 2 AC chargers top out at 11.5 kW (48 amps). My Ford Lightning can charge at 80 amps (19.2 kW) provided you have a 100-amp electrical system to allow it. That means if you charge at home, you probably won't be able to utilize all the energy you're producing during midday.

That might be one reason to install a battery backup system, which would store the excess energy you're producing for later use. Of course, if your utility gives you a good enough net-metering deal, you can just continue to use the grid as a battery. It all depends on the local utility and how solar-friendly they are.

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