Update on Mach-E launch progress from engineering friends in Mexico

[silverelan]

Ford says the Mach-E adds 61 miles of range in 10 minutes. Although that's gotta be in the best part of the charge curve (down near the 10-30% SOC area) because they still also say 10-80% in 45 minutes (w/ER battery), which is a broader average of 47 miles in 10 minutes.

What if Ford's Mustang Mach-E ER will have nearly identical EPA and WLTP range? Tesla Model 3 & Y both do.

45 mins to add 70% SoC adds up if you use the WLTP target range.

WLTP Range
RWD: 379 mi x .7 = 265 mi
AWD: 335 mi x .7 = 234 mi

Ford claims
RWD: 61mi/10 mins @ 150kW
AWD: 52mi/10 mins @ 150kW

6.1mi per min x 45 mins = 274 mi
5.2mi per min x 45 mins = 234 mi

Those charging numbers are really too close to be coincidental and don't make sense if they're just the "best part of the curve".

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[JamieGeek]

What if Ford's Mustang Mach-E ER will have nearly identical EPA and WLTP range? Tesla Model 3 & Y both do.

45 mins to add 70% SoC adds up if you use the WLTP target range.

WLTP Range
RWD: 379 mi x .7 = 265 mi
AWD: 335 mi x .7 = 234 mi

Ford claims
RWD: 61mi/10 mins @ 150kW
AWD: 52mi/10 mins @ 150kW

6.1mi per min x 45 mins = 274 mi
5.2mi per min x 45 mins = 234 mi

Those charging numbers are really too close to be coincidental and don't make sense if they're just the "best part of the curve".

That would be huge if you could get 379 miles out of an ER RWD Mach-E! Even if that was only the 50 mph or so of the test.

That would mean such a Mach-E could easily go 300 miles on the freeway.

 

[dbsb3233]

What if Ford's Mustang Mach-E ER will have nearly identical EPA and WLTP range? Tesla Model 3 & Y both do.

45 mins to add 70% SoC adds up if you use the WLTP target range.

WLTP Range
RWD: 379 mi x .7 = 265 mi
AWD: 335 mi x .7 = 234 mi

Ford claims
RWD: 61mi/10 mins @ 150kW
AWD: 52mi/10 mins @ 150kW

6.1mi per min x 45 mins = 274 mi
5.2mi per min x 45 mins = 234 mi

Those charging numbers are really too close to be coincidental and don't make sense if they're just the "best part of the curve".

That's conflating two different numbers though. Whichever miles/kWh rate you assume (ERA or WLTP), it needs to be applied consistently, not mixed & matched.

What's really being added is kWh, not miles. That should be 61.6 kWh (70% of 88) in 45 minutes (no matter whether in the US or Europe).

The Ford estimate for US driving (EPA) in the RWD ER is 300 miles / 88 kWh = 3.41 miles/kWh.
The Ford estimate for Europe driving (WLTP) is 373 miles / 88 kWh = 4.24 miles/kWh.
The WLTP figure is 24% longer range estimate because of assumed slower speeds and more regen breaking.

It's possible Ford's initial miles/kWh estimates were off some, but I can't imagine that 24% difference totally disappeared. That would mean they did a really bad job of the computer modeling that produced the initial estimates.

But hopefully that 24% gap does shrink some, meaning that the MME does better at higher speeds than they initially assumed.

 

[jhalkias]

Any new production news @trutolife27 or @ChasingCoral from your friends?

 

[DaveRuns]

That's conflating two different numbers though. Whichever miles/kWh rate you assume (ERA or WLTP), it needs to be applied consistently, not mixed & matched.

What's really being added is kWh, not miles. That should be 61.6 kWh (70% of 88) in 45 minutes (no matter whether in the US or Europe).

The Ford estimate for US driving (EPA) in the RWD ER is 300 miles / 88 kWh = 3.41 miles/kWh.
The Ford estimate for Europe driving (WLTP) is 373 miles / 88 kWh = 4.24 miles/kWh.
The WLTP figure is 24% longer range estimate because of assumed slower speeds and more regen breaking.

It's possible Ford's initial miles/kWh estimates were off some, but I can't imagine that 24% difference totally disappeared. That would mean they did a really bad job of the computer modeling that produced the initial estimates.

But hopefully that 24% gap does shrink some, meaning that the MME does better at higher speeds than they initially assumed.

Why are we talking about kwh and range on this thread? I want to see updates from Mexico on here.

 

[Shayne]

In quebec we get 600$ and municipalities add to it. Its a state/provincial incentive.

In Ontario we get squat and feds also nothing unless it costs the price of an electric scooter. Part of the climate denial. Heck feds are buying pipe lines on our tax dollars and shipping money to oil barrens to clean up their own mess; like that is what they will do with the cash.

 

[JamieGeek]

Yeah didn't really clearly word that...

Take the Bolt, since I have one, the early Bolt that only gets 238 miles EPA range. At a steady state 70-75 in good EV weather it can go (or I can get it to go) about 200 miles. That is far more than 1/2 the 238 miles of range. Granted this is anecdotal being a datapoint of myself and not scientifically determined.

A GM engineer stated that if you drive this version of the Bolt full throttle you'll get 180 miles out of the battery--still more than 1/2 238 miles.

Now yes: If I were to drive my Bolt a constant speed for 50 mph I would get far more miles out of it than the EPA range (indeed just today we took it on a fall leaf viewing run which was 35 mph and was approaching 5 miles/kWh). In this condition, yes 75 mph range would probably roughly equal 1/2 of the 50 mph range...

 

[SD_Solar]

I don't think the mileage hit would be that bad.
I have a pretty accurate Range Chart for my 2019 Leaf SL+ (62 KWH battery) and with ideal conditions --- 70F, zero wind, zero elevation changes at 50 mph = 286 miles and at 75 mph = 185 miles.
So about a 35% range reduction.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

I'm in the same boat (didn't really need 40A, and was just gonna use the included mobile charger first and maybe get something later). But here in the US there's a 30% tax credit for chargers expiring this year, so that effectively made the Grizzl-E only $250 for getting it now. Couldn't turn that down.

Looks like you're in Canada though do that doesn't apply. (Ironically, the Grizzl-E is made in Canada though. )

But in Quebec there is a $600 incentives to install a home charger, so that makes the Grizzl-E almost free.

 

[dbsb3233]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/08/teslas-model-3-beats-competitors-in-70mph-range-test/

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

why are we talking about others talking about kwh and range. I want to see more cat and dog pictures

 

[Badger_Prof]

Yeah didn't really clearly word that...

Take the Bolt, since I have one, the early Bolt that only gets 238 miles EPA range. At a steady state 70-75 in good EV weather it can go (or I can get it to go) about 200 miles. That is far more than 1/2 the 238 miles of range. Granted this is anecdotal being a datapoint of myself and not scientifically determined.

A GM engineer stated that if you drive this version of the Bolt full throttle you'll get 180 miles out of the battery--still more than 1/2 238 miles.

Now yes: If I were to drive my Bolt a constant speed for 50 mph I would get far more miles out of it than the EPA range (indeed just today we took it on a fall leaf viewing run which was 35 mph and was approaching 5 miles/kWh). In this condition, yes 75 mph range would probably roughly equal 1/2 of the 50 mph range...

Same for my Bolt. Same car. Same range experience so it is not just you.

 

[MerryBrown]

why are we talking about others talking about kwh and range. I want to see more cat and dog pictures ??

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

Waiting for the Mach-E to arrive ?