Why Can't The Mach-E GT Do This?

[jlauro]

Exactly, Tesla can do it, Ford can’t.

Ford can, as done with the Mach E 1400. However Ford tends to only sell mass market and not niche vehicles. They make many niche vehicles, but don't sell them...

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[delacruz.c5d]

Ford can, as done with the Mach E 1400. However Ford tends to only sell mass market and not niche vehicles. They make many niche vehicles, but don't sell them...

Except for the Fort GT. I think they sold every one they built.

I mean not to argue points, I just brought it up because I got to see one "in the flesh/for realz" vs on a screen or on a piece of paper for the first time a few days ago. Awesome sauce. And it's a V6...<shakingMyHead>

What I really want to see is the color selection kit that Ford sent out to all of the awarded Ford GT order winners. Those things were friggin' cool.

 

[Jimrpa]

Silly thought - could part of the reason for the “5 second rule” be warranty related, just as part of the reason for the huge battery buffer is warranty related?

 

[Mach1E]

Silly thought - could part of the reason for the “5 second rule” be warranty related, just as part of the reason for the huge battery buffer is warranty related?

Oh that thought has been thought.

And it’s probably the most likely reason.

It’s also what give us us hope. They’re lessening the battery buffer so hopefully they unleash more power as well.

 

[Dave13]

Huh?

ICE vehicles let you got 100% throttle whenever you want. Not sure what you’re talking about.

Do you mean rev limiters? Because that isn’t even remotely the same. On an ICE, removing a rev limiter on a stock motor won’t make it faster. It’s usually set well outside the power band.

 

[CompilerBreak]

Costs and everything else aside, keep in mind the Model S originally came out in 2012, it took them 8+ years to build up to the plaid model.

I think Ford played it overly safe with the GT, but I'm still plenty impressed for more or less a first model year.

 

[dtbaker61]

They are using 18650 cells. I suspect their water jacket design is vastly superior for thermal dissipation than the Pouch style cells we have. Pouch cells deliver a lot of power VERY fast, but also get much hotter as a result. Our packs are relying on a single aluminum plate between pouches to scrub heat through a thermal interface to the coolant below the pouches. That is not an efficient design to remove heat FAST like you need to do if you go full power for any extended duration.

I really don't think we're going to get much better than we have. I think they're going to have to design the thermal system differently.

exactly

I keep waiting for one of the 5 second complainers to try a mod to flash-cool the battery/inverter/motor coolant loop and report results. Could be as simple as rigging a fire extinguisher in front of the radiator and bleeding some CO2 thru it prior/during a drag run.

If that buys more than 5 seconds at 100% current, and more 'long term' mod could be to pull the frunk and add an electric chiller (heat pump) and inline heat exchanger to chill the coolant loop.

 

[Scooby24]

I've got a BLE+ device coming tomorrow I'll use with my torque pro app to do some monitoring on temps to see what seems to be happening at WOT. Curious to see if it's the batteries that take off in temp or something else.

 

[dtbaker61]

I've got a BLE+ device coming tomorrow I'll use with my torque pro app to do some monitoring on temps to see what seems to be happening at WOT. Curious to see if it's the batteries that take off in temp or something else.

with just a little basic plumbing, you could have a frunk full of ice water, or an electric chiller, and a heat exchanger spliced in front of the motor/inverter/battery intake to extract more BTU fast by keeping the inlet temp at .... 65 deg F perhaps ....

There are some pretty compact exchangers that can move 100,000 BTU/hr and a chilled buffer tank would probably do the job in combination with something like:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Go...daGqTiHq4d9sGP62jxMM4HBpM0zmyUUcaAhkPEALw_wcB

 

[benk016]

I've got a BLE+ device coming tomorrow I'll use with my torque pro app to do some monitoring on temps to see what seems to be happening at WOT. Curious to see if it's the batteries that take off in temp or something else.

Battery temps reported by OBD stay pretty low except during DCFC. I can WOT several times and my battery temp doesn't rise but maybe a degree or two, and actually usually sits around 60-65f. Once I DCFC, it warms up to around 90.

It could be that the temp sensor doesn't pick up one part of the battery that may be getting hot though. But I suspect if its temp related, its going to be an inverter or the motor itself that's getting hot.

 

[Scooby24]

with just a little basic plumbing, you could have a frunk full of ice water, or an electric chiller, and a heat exchanger spliced in front of the motor/inverter/battery intake to extract more BTU fast by keeping the inlet temp at .... 65 deg F perhaps ....

There are some pretty compact exchangers that can move 100,000 BTU/hr and a chilled buffer tank would probably do the job in combination with something like:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Go...daGqTiHq4d9sGP62jxMM4HBpM0zmyUUcaAhkPEALw_wcB

I'm not sure that would make a difference...it may all be happening too fast and the boost limit isn't in a "closed loop" and is just placing a limit based on what they've tested to be safe. You could cool the batteries all you wanted and the limit may still be in place.

 

[Kevin P]

I'm not sure that would make a difference...it may all be happening too fast and the boost limit isn't in a "closed loop" and is just placing a limit based on what they've tested to be safe. You could cool the batteries all you wanted and the limit may still be in place.

I am almost certain it wouldn't make a difference. The fact that the 5 second limit never changes based on external temperature almost guarantees that its not a closed-loop system. Its just a programmed time/throttle map.

 

[dtbaker61]

I'm not sure that would make a difference...it may all be happening too fast and the boost limit isn't in a "closed loop" and is just placing a limit based on what they've tested to be safe. You could cool the batteries all you wanted and the limit may still be in place.

We're just guessing whether it's timed, or based on one of the temp sensors.... unless there has been a post from Ford Engineering I missed?

My bet is that it's temp, but I dunno WHICH sensor. Probably not ambient, but likely to be any or all of the internal motor, inverter, battery sensors. Most likely a sensor buried in the battery tray.

I can tell you from my own experience with my eMiata, that pulling 5C or 10C through connections that are designed to handle continuous current of no more than 1C has a pretty quick effect unless the heat transfer is optimized to cool the cells. External air cooling won't help *much*. I'm talking about coolant chilled as cold as you can get it to extract as many BTU as possible.

since we can't easily open up the battery pack to optimize the internal heat transfer plates, the only thing we can even try to modify is the inlet temp of the coolant prior/during heavy loads. If I were a drag racer interested in modifying to see if I could squeeze out another second or two at full current..... I'd test the theory since I doubt we're going to see an official response from Ford Engineering on this.

 

[dtbaker61]

Battery temps reported by OBD stay pretty low except during DCFC. I can WOT several times and my battery temp doesn't rise but maybe a degree or two, and actually usually sits around 60-65f. Once I DCFC, it warms up to around 90.

It could be that the temp sensor doesn't pick up one part of the battery that may be getting hot though. But I suspect if its temp related, its going to be an inverter or the motor itself that's getting hot.

I'd love to see which temp sensor spikes under load if you can capture that during a full throttle test.....

one way to get a clue as to whether it is temp or just a 5 second timer would be to do several runs in a row without giving things time to cool between runs. i.e. do you continue to get 5 secs at 100% current, or do it reduce as core temps increase and don't have time to cool.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

While we’re into the land of wild speculation, does anyone have the specs on the wires going to the motors? I can’t help but wonder how much temp they’re rated for or what kind of loads for how long. Everyone is talking motor temp and battery temps, but what about the wires themselves? If they aren’t sufficiently heavy duty for longer pulls, couldn’t those be a major limiting factor. I know keeping the cables cool is a limiting factor on charging stations.

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