Jim Farley Discusses Switch to NACS

[kltye]

I would bet your house that he did, although he probably phrased it differently. ?

Just telling someone they suck doesn't automatically mean that years old design and vendor selection decisions can be changed immediately. Everybody wants to complain about Ford and Tesla for the cord length issue, but the real culprits are the CCS networks that are badly managed with subpar equipment.

So my question is - why are we having subpar equipment? EU DC chargers seem to be quite a bit more reliable (maybe still not as reliable as Tesla's, but still). Everyone likes to say "EA doesn't give a shit about their product because it's a punishment" - fine, but that doesn't explain EVgo or ChargePoint. I'm a little frustrated that no one seems to have asked CxOs of those companies point blank - are you simply unable to procure products that don't suck? I've had a short conversation with EVgo's chief operating officer, and all he could tell me was "it'll get better in Q1 2024 as we replace power units that aren't up to par", in addition to the fact that they're abandoning some locations where they've installed the new 50kW BTC Power chargers that broke almost immediately because they can't get replacement parts.

(And yes, I'm aware that ChargePoint's CPE250 chargers are very reliable, but it's a relatively low-powered unit)

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[silverelan]

Not sure why Farley didn't call up EA/EVgo/ChargePoint/whatever CEO and ask them wtf is going on with their network, and what it would take for it to suck less.

he did. A reporter from Car & Driver did an interview and mentioned that there was a call between Farley and EA’s CEO, Giovanni Palazzo. It was shortly thereafter that Farley called Elon.

I would bet your house that he did, although he probably phrased it differently. ?

Just telling someone they suck doesn't automatically mean that years old design and vendor selection decisions can be changed immediately. Everybody wants to complain about Ford and Tesla for the cord length issue, but the real culprits are the CCS networks that are badly managed with subpar equipment.

EA’s piss poor management of their network is solely responsible for why we’re all moving to NACS.

 

[ChehRob]

Res unreliable chargers. My suspicion is that getting that high amperage electrical supply/the Wi-Fi, the piece of real-estate it sits on, plus the permitting process is the expensive part. Anyone have an idea what it might cost to put in a reliable Tesla Dock charger, or something equally reliable? If I am anywhere close to correct on this, this could be one of the cheapest ways to upgrade some of the problematic existing EV infrastructure.

 

[TRP]

It doesn’t. It’s just the fact that Farley said that Tesla won’t know that I find hard to swallow.

Oh, you can almost guarantee that they will know

 

[timbop]

. I'm a little frustrated that no one seems to have asked CxOs of those companies point blank - are you simply unable to procure products that don't suck?

I don't want to argue with you, but there's absolutely no way in hell you can possibly know what conversations those executives have had in private. If you're simply complaining that there's no public record of such an event, common sense should dictate that anyone seeking access to executives can't publicly call them incompetent fools and expect to continue gaining such access.

I think you're focusing on the symptom and not the problem. EA, EVgo, and the rest are fully aware that their hardware is unreliable and that maintenance costs are higher than they should be. They don't need Jim Farley to tell them that. If those execs want to take the public stance that their suppliers suck, they don't need Farley to prod them, either.

 

[kltye]

I don't want to argue with you, but there's absolutely no way in hell you can possibly know what conversations those executives have had in private. If you're simply complaining that there's no public record of such an event, common sense should dictate that anyone seeking access to executives can't publicly call them incompetent fools and expect to continue gaining such access.

I think you're focusing on the symptom and not the problem. EA, EVgo, and the rest are fully aware that their hardware is unreliable and that maintenance costs are higher than they should be. They don't need Jim Farley to tell them that. If those execs want to take the public stance that their suppliers suck, they don't need Farley to prod them, either.

Sure, I 100% agree with your statements - but what exactly is the problem then? We know that reliable charging hardware exists somewhere in the world, but why on earth would EA and EVgo not be able to access that? That is the question I want answers to.

Also, as far as execs not calling other companies incompetent fools - I think Farley has said that way louder than actually saying those words, by shaking up an entire industry.

 

[timbop]

...what exactly is the problem then? We know that reliable charging hardware exists somewhere in the world, but why on earth would EA and EVgo not be able to access that? That is the question I want answers to.

Also, as far as execs not calling other companies incompetent fools - I think Farley has said that way louder than actually saying those words, by shaking up an entire industry.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. I think everyone with an EV in the US would like to know the answer to that question

 

[ArthurDOB]

I'm sure someone must have made this observation, but maybe Tesla opening up their system will help EA get their poop together. Competition: It'll either drive them to improve or drive them out of business.

 

[silverelan]

Unrelated to NACS was something Farley said about OTA improvements to the MME. Jim said there were promises made about sending software updates to improve things like range and acceleration in the Mach-E.

Here’s to hoping those promises are kept.

Go to timestamp 18:40

 

[JoeBeach]

Does this mean that the third party chargers like Electrify America are going to have to change their connectors after 2025?

 

[corradoborg]

Does this mean that the third party chargers like Electrify America are going to have to change their connectors after 2025?

Yes and no. The cars that switch to NACS ports will also have to come with adapters initially so they can use existing CCS chargers. For the next several years there will be a hodge-podge of NACS and CCS connectors until most DCFC's have had their ports replaced due to upgrades and repairs. But eventually, yes, they will all have to move to NACS if they want to remain in business.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Did anyone catch the PCMag article comparing Supercharger locations available to Tesla drivers (all of them of course) with the Superchargers available to Ford drivers?

They showed how in a few major cities (SF, Chicago, Seattle, Miami) the Superchargers in the downtown core were not available to us.

The vast majority seem to be 72 kWh (Gen 1?) with the occasional 250 not available, but the article makes it seems like there is a conspiracy to make it look like this is a big deal, but it's really not because Ford drivers can't really change at any "good" locations. Seems pretty misleading.

Maybe Car & Driver should review the new MacBook Air....

https://apple.news/AfKeCxvvkRKCza_rw848vyQ

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I don't want to argue with you, but there's absolutely no way in hell you can possibly know what conversations those executives have had in private. If you're simply complaining that there's no public record of such an event, common sense should dictate that anyone seeking access to executives can't publicly call them incompetent fools and expect to continue gaining such access.

I think you're focusing on the symptom and not the problem. EA, EVgo, and the rest are fully aware that their hardware is unreliable and that maintenance costs are higher than they should be. They don't need Jim Farley to tell them that. If those execs want to take the public stance that their suppliers suck, they don't need Farley to prod them, either.

Analysts call them incompetent fools all day long… and downgrade the stock in a heartbeat. Nothing stresses out CEOs more than earnings calls. Heavy doses of alcohol get consumed afterwards.

 

[kodiakng]

Did anyone catch the PCMag article comparing Supercharger locations available to Tesla drivers (all of them of course) with the Superchargers available to Ford drivers?

They showed how in a few major cities (SF, Chicago, Seattle, Miami) the Superchargers in the downtown core were not available to us.

The vast majority seem to be 72 kWh (Gen 1?) with the occasional 250 not available, but the article makes it seems like there is a conspiracy to make it look like this is a big deal, but it's really not because Ford drivers can't really change at any "good" locations. Seems pretty misleading.

Maybe Car & Driver should review the new MacBook Air....

https://apple.news/AfKeCxvvkRKCza_rw848vyQ

it's just the difference between v2 and v3 deployment. v2 came first and had some prime locations. the 72kW stations are just v2 chargers in urban high density deployment - probably a utility power source limitation.

 

[Mach Al]

I wish he had asked if they will make a retrofit for the vehicle plug and how much if they will offer it. Eventually CCS will be a thing of the past and it would be nice to not have to use the adapter. I know it will be quite some time before CCS is gone, but I think it would be a benefit to have the correct plug when selling the car.

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