Deciding between a standard or extended range battery

JamieGeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Threads
82
Messages
3,556
Reaction score
6,746
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Website
spareelectrons.wordpress.com
Vehicles
Mach-E, old: Bolt, C-Max Energi, Focus Electric
Country flag
Yes, in Ford's FAQ they've mentioned that departure time preconditioning is a built in feature that you can use if the car's plugged in. Preconditions the powertrain as well as cabin.
Only problem with it is: It spoils you ! LOL "You mean your car isn't all toasty warm 80F when you get in on that -10F day??" (Yes I had the Focus set to 80F so I didn't have to run the heater during my commute--extreme measures when your car can only go about 50 miles in winter.)
Sponsored

 

mattsaradan

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
202
Reaction score
186
Location
Baltimore, MD
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E Premium AWD SR; Fusion Energi Platinum
Country flag
Just to get back to the original topic of the thread, seems like ER battery is basically an additional $5K for range that would only be needed on longer road trips, and that is about the equivalent of an extra 15 minutes charge time at a DC fast charger. Is that right? My reservation is for AWD SR given that most days I drive under 25 miles, some days I may drive as much as 100 miles, and for the two or three times a year I have a road trip of about 325 miles, I can either plan a 1 hour stop about halfway, or take my ICE. Did I miss something? Anyone advise otherwise given those driving patterns?
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Threads
63
Messages
6,729
Reaction score
13,758
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
Solar powered 2021 MME ER RWD & 2022 Corsair PHEV
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Just to get back to the original topic of the thread, seems like ER battery is basically an additional $5K for range that would only be needed on longer road trips, and that is about the equivalent of an extra 15 minutes charge time at a DC fast charger. Is that right? My reservation is for AWD SR given that most days I drive under 25 miles, some days I may drive as much as 100 miles, and for the two or three times a year I have a road trip of about 325 miles, I can either plan a 1 hour stop about halfway, or take my ICE. Did I miss something? Anyone advise otherwise given those driving patterns?
Sounds right to me; you should be fine with the standard range. The only exception in your narrative is for the 1 stop for an hour on your road trip. The efficiency/rate of charge is highest when the battery is mostly discharged and gets slower as it charges - slowing significantly as it tops 80%. Fast chargers also have per minute rates, so it works out better if you plan 2 shorter stops rather than 1, but it all depends on where the chargers are, how fast you drive, if there is a slower level 2 charger or 240v outlet where you're going. For a hypothetical trip consult http://abetterrouteplanner.com
 
OP
OP
macchiaz-o

macchiaz-o

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Threads
168
Messages
8,157
Reaction score
15,299
Location
🔑 ]not/A/gr8'Place.2.store-mEyePassword[ 👀
Vehicles
MY21 J1 Premium RWD SR
Country flag
I'm still thinking this through in the same way you've expressed, Matt. The extra range sure sounds nice. Why wouldn't I want that? But the added weight and cost doesn't help at all for my day to day needs. I average about 40 miles daily. Around town, the most miles I might do in a day would be about 120, and that isn't often.

For a road trip along major highways, with the SR (230 miles), I'd just stop for additional charging sessions. Doesn't seem like a big deal, as long as the charging network is along my route.

When there aren't sufficient refuel points along the route, I don't think the extra 70 miles from the ER is going to save the day. I'd still worry about being stranded and would still opt to take an ICE vehicle instead... And I won't own one any more, so I'd just rent a car for those rare needs.

Most of the road trips I've taken in Arizona involved long stretches on state roads. Today, there aren't really any high speed charging options on these roads, though maybe they'll start appearing in the next 10 years. Our interstate roads (I-10, I-17, I-8) have high speed charge options, but that's about it.

I've bounced the options by some friends...

Several recommend AWD because "it drives so much better." OK, but my Fiesta is alright and any BEV will drive significantly better than it. I think I'll be happy with RWD and its lower maintenance and service costs.

Several friends have recommended the ER battery because "hedge off battery replacement due to degradation after many years" or "why not? it's only 10% more cost." The former argument makes no sense (essentially prepay for a new battery?!) and based on the latter logic, I should ignore the MME and go directly for a Taycan Turbo S.
 


dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,299
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Exactly. I've decided to get the AWD, so for me the question is "is it worth paying $5000 to gain 60 miles of range?". Which is really more like 40-45 miles of range at interstate speeds where it would actually matter.

The answer for me is clearly No. Like you, my days almost never consist of drives over 50 miles. And I'll still have a 2nd (ICE) car. Easy decision just to take that any day I plan to go any further. Others may not have that option, thus extra range could be a bigger deal for them. But an extra 60 miles isn't nearly enough to make a difference for me. It's still not enough to use it instead of the ICE on long drives (when combined with long charging times and high speed losses).

Plus it's already an expensive car. It took some convincing (and a bunch of tax credits) for me to even decide to spend $55k. $5000 more is no pittance, even if it is just "10%".

I also look at the potential for better/cheaper batteries in the future, that might hold more juice and charge faster. I'm not counting on it by any means, but it's not out of the question that in 5 years or so there could be a battery pack replacement that's twice as good and not cost much more than the $5000 I'm saving now.
 

hybrid2bev

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Threads
75
Messages
4,071
Reaction score
11,093
Location
USA
Vehicles
2021 Job 1 Premium4X - EAP Member
Country flag
Exactly. I've decided to get the AWD, so for me the question is "is it worth paying $5000 to gain 60 miles of range?". Which is really more like 40-45 miles of range at interstate speeds where it would actually matter.
The extended range battery is not only a range bump but also a horsepower increase. Bigger battery = more power to the motors. That's an every day benefit in my books.

Standard Range (SR) RWD & AWD: Targeting 255 HP
Extended Range (ER) RWD: Targeting 282 HP
Extended Range (ER) AWD: Targeting 332 HP
 

Redundant

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Threads
18
Messages
489
Reaction score
546
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
Mach-E 4X-Space White, 1 Ford Flex, 2 Ford Escapes
Country flag
Exactly. I've decided to get the AWD, so for me the question is "is it worth paying $5000 to gain 60 miles of range?". Which is really more like 40-45 miles of range at interstate speeds where it would actually matter.

The answer for me is clearly No. Like you, my days almost never consist of drives over 50 miles. And I'll still have a 2nd (ICE) car. Easy decision just to take that any day I plan to go any further. Others may not have that option, thus extra range could be a bigger deal for them. But an extra 60 miles isn't nearly enough to make a difference for me. It's still not enough to use it instead of the ICE on long drives (when combined with long charging times and high speed losses).

Plus it's already an expensive car. It took some convincing (and a bunch of tax credits) for me to even decide to spend $55k. $5000 more is no pittance, even if it is just "10%".

I also look at the potential for better/cheaper batteries in the future, that might hold more juice and charge faster. I'm not counting on it by any means, but it's not out of the question that in 5 years or so there could be a battery pack replacement that's twice as good and not cost much more than the $5000 I'm saving now.
I am in the same boat, but it is often hard for me to "compromise" and I give myself all kinds of rationalizations why I should have more range, some of which are even legitimate. But, I live in NJ, and if I make the same decision as you, I save $10,000!! NJ has a $5,000 rebate on EVs that MSRP for less than $55K. Therefore, I save $5K on the batteries and get a $5K rebate. That makes my rationalizations an even harder sell.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,299
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
The extended range battery is not only a range bump but also a horsepower increase. Bigger battery = more power to the motors. That's an every day benefit in my books.

Standard Range (SR) RWD & AWD: Targeting 255 HP
Extended Range (ER) RWD: Targeting 282 HP
Extended Range (ER) AWD: Targeting 332 HP
True, but the vehicle is also lighter, which will partially offset that. Some of that extra HP gets used up just to "catch up" and push the extra weight around.

Plus I suspect it'll have more power than I really need anyway.
 

symos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
51
Reaction score
35
Location
Eswatini
Vehicles
Lotus Esprit
The extended range battery is not only a range bump but also a horsepower increase. Bigger battery = more power to the motors. That's an every day benefit in my books.

Standard Range (SR) RWD & AWD: Targeting 255 HP
Extended Range (ER) RWD: Targeting 282 HP
Extended Range (ER) AWD: Targeting 332 HP
But it also means bigger weight. That's why if you look at 0-60 times, they don't correlate with the HP ratings. For example, the SR AWD (255HP) has a target 0-60 of mid 5 seconds and the ER RWD (282HP) has a target of mid 6 seconds. Also, the SR (255HP) and ER AWD (332HP) have the same 0-60 target!
 

hybrid2bev

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Threads
75
Messages
4,071
Reaction score
11,093
Location
USA
Vehicles
2021 Job 1 Premium4X - EAP Member
Country flag
But it also means bigger weight. That's why if you look at 0-60 times, they don't correlate with the HP ratings. For example, the SR AWD (255HP) has a target 0-60 of mid 5 seconds and the ER RWD (282HP) has a target of mid 6 seconds. Also, the SR (255HP) and ER AWD (332HP) have the same 0-60 target!
Yeah, good points. I guess I didn't think it's that big of a difference, about 330 lbs between the extended range and standard range (one big person extra).
 
Last edited:

Sweetwater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
500
Reaction score
345
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
Jeep
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Country flag
Just a note. I owned a Tesla 2010 Roadster. He only made 2500 in 6 yrs. 1500 stayed in USA
and 1000 went to other countries. I loved the roadster and it exceeded the specs. Mind you
it is all on how you drive and charge. I always got 285 miles at my home charger. Below is
a note from the Roadster review :

How long can you drive the 2010 Tesla Roadster, regardless of the fun you're having? Autoblog says "the company is quoting a range of about 244 miles per full charge." But the real number varies with driving style, according to TheCarConnection.com's research, and it will do better around town than at higher speeds. "Range on my test car is disappointing," says Bloomberg's tester. Car and Driver reports that highway driving "drains the pack fast, as it sucks amps and there are fewer opportunities for brake regeneration." Regardless of speed and range, though, the Tesla Roadster is clearly cheaper to run per mile than a conventional automobile. Car and Driver estimates that charging the Roadster costs "about $4 to $7 worth [of electricity] for a single fill-up, depending on your local electricity rates."
 

mattsaradan

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
202
Reaction score
186
Location
Baltimore, MD
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E Premium AWD SR; Fusion Energi Platinum
Country flag
Sounds right to me; you should be fine with the standard range. The only exception in your narrative is for the 1 stop for an hour on your road trip. The efficiency/rate of charge is highest when the battery is mostly discharged and gets slower as it charges - slowing significantly as it tops 80%. Fast chargers also have per minute rates, so it works out better if you plan 2 shorter stops rather than 1, but it all depends on where the chargers are, how fast you drive, if there is a slower level 2 charger or 240v outlet where you're going. For a hypothetical trip consult http://abetterrouteplanner.com
Thanks! That is helpful.
 

mattsaradan

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
202
Reaction score
186
Location
Baltimore, MD
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E Premium AWD SR; Fusion Energi Platinum
Country flag
Yeah, good points. I guess I didn't think it's that big of a difference, about 330 lbs between the extended range and standard range (one big person extra).
The other reason there is no performance difference between AWD ER and AWD SR is they have the same torque. HP and torque don't correlate with electric motors as neatly as they do with gas engines. Size of the electric motor makes a bigger difference than size of the battery, so you will get faster acceleration with the two motors in AWD on a SR battery than with one motor even powered by the ER battery, and why you get faster acceleration still with the GT which has a bigger motor up-front than the AWD, even with the same battery.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,299
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
But it also means bigger weight. That's why if you look at 0-60 times, they don't correlate with the HP ratings. For example, the SR AWD (255HP) has a target 0-60 of mid 5 seconds and the ER RWD (282HP) has a target of mid 6 seconds. Also, the SR (255HP) and ER AWD (332HP) have the same 0-60 target!
Even more telling is that when comparing the SR RWD to the ER RWD, the smaller battery is not just as good on speed, but even faster. (Low-six second vs mid-six, even at lower HP)
Sponsored

 
 




Top