smartino

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I had the issue where when your charging and do a remote start when you get in the car and go. I won’t start. Today I was at the dealer and they did the software update to multiple controllers in the car. They then put it on a charger. About 20 minutes later I did a remote start and when I got in to drive it started right up. They also checked the 12V battery and it checked out as healthy. So now I guess we will see if they get the charging issue with the 12V resolved.
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I started the thread so you can see my initial problems. I just got mine back from the dealer today after an engineer spent some time with it and so far so good. I had to reset a few things but fingers crossed and the only jumping I'm doing is that it starts, not jump starting!!
 

Shayne

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Your charging schedule issue sounds like a different software "feature." I had trouble with my schedule not saving until I was persistent and did it several times, which also included unplugging the car, plugging it back in, starting the car to make sure it was "online" when I was saving the schedule, killing the FordPass app and restarting it plus refreshing the status in the app to make sure the settings "stuck." Even so, the car will report that it is unplugged except when it wakes up to do "conditioning" / charge the LVB.

Another thing that comes to mind is that GPS accuracy could be a factor. You can't edit saved locations to correct the address, you can only add new charging locations if you plug in at a new location. In my garage the car doesn't get good GPS reception and so several times it's marked the location as down the block across the street, using different addresses. Even now the FordPass app has my actual home address, but if I go to the car and try to edit it, it shows as a different address on a nearby street.

My point being, if the car's notion of the charging location is not the exact same address every time and if that location doesn't match what you've set in the FordPass app, I would expect the car to behave as though it's a new charging location. And new charging locations seem to default to 100% charge, "any time."

Since my FordPass app and the car's view of the "Home" location are currently different, I think I may change the car setting for "Home" and call it "Home2" and then see if I can get it to add a new location with my correct address that matches what I have in the FordPass App.

Thinking more on this, I would much prefer that if the car is able to join my home WiFi then it should use my home address as the location, no matter what the GPS tells it. That would probably solve a multitude of issues here. At the very least I should be able to "move the pin" that determines the vehicle location, *AND* edit the address.
Tried plugged in unplugged from different locations drive after setting from app from car on and on.

From dealer install fordpass 3.17 (new). Reset sync (vol arrow)

Plugged in to charge as always displayed waiting to charge for about 10 minutes and then resets and starts charging and target 100%. After it will die and hibernate.

Stopped charging closed all running fordpass apps here.

Renamed it from home to location_1 Set charge time (pushed back) and %. Plugged in and within 5 minutes is charging again (and with the number of times i have done this it will charge to 100%) I will open Fordpass in a bit and check status. Just does not work and know I can not fix this someone needs to throw a switch from the clouds (stop messing with me ;)) or there is something wrong with this vehicle.

It just dies and I loose the car in the app I do not think it is maintaining too much after charging is complete. Ever get this?

Ford Mustang Mach-E Deep Sleep Mode - 12v battery drained dead [update: Mach-E jump started] Screenshot 2021-02-26 at 6.06.06 AM


Five feet away from it? It is gone, sleeping doing nothing but freezing up.
 

AEtherScythe

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It just dies and I loose the car in the app I do not think it is maintaining too much after charging is complete. Ever get this?

Screenshot 2021-02-26 at 6.06.06 AM.jpg


Five feet away from it? It is gone, sleeping doing nothing but freezing up.
That's sad. How's the AT&T mobile coverage in your location?

A Ford engineer told us for a lot of these functions the car uses the on-board AT&T modem, not your home Wi-Fi. To me that's a bad design, right from the start, since AT&T cellular has been absolutely terrible at our location for the last 20 years.

If AT&T just stinks at your location that's probably a big part of the problem. Other than that maybe you actually have a defective antenna, either for the GPS or AT&T or both.

FWIW, when I am trying to get my location to save as a charge location with the correct address I actually back the car out of the garage so the antenna has full line of site to all GPS satellites. Are you doing the same?
 

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That's sad. How's the AT&T mobile coverage in your location?

A Ford engineer told us for a lot of these functions the car uses the on-board AT&T modem, not your home Wi-Fi. To me that's a bad design, right from the start, since AT&T cellular has been absolutely terrible at our location for the last 20 years.

If AT&T just stinks at your location that's probably a big part of the problem. Other than that maybe you actually have a defective antenna, either for the GPS or AT&T or both.

FWIW, when I am trying to get my location to save as a charge location with the correct address I actually back the car out of the garage so the antenna has full line of site to all GPS satellites. Are you doing the same?
Does not need fordpass can set things up in sync. Have the app closed (i do not even need to install the app for this car to function correctly). This is sync and the car. AT&T is not in Canada so maybe another service? If I new it was maintaining itself in freezing temps after charging/when not plugged in I would be good. Don't think that is the case here.

I drove out in a field to set it up didn't help. I get satellite 4' above where the car is parked. Have 2 cells different services and both have good reception. I have two addresses one in fordpass and one in sync same location they think but are 2 1/2 football fields apart. Good luck them nailing your address bang on.
 


AEtherScythe

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Does not need fordpass can set things up in sync. Have the app closed (i do not even need to install the app for this car to function correctly). This is sync and the car. AT&T is not in Canada so maybe another service? If I new it was maintaining itself in freezing temps after charging/when not plugged in I would be good. Don't think that is the case here.

I drove out in a field to set it up didn't help. I get satellite 4' above where the car is parked. Have 2 cells different services and both have good reception. I have two addresses one in fordpass and one in sync same location they think but are 2 1/2 football fields apart. Good luck them nailing your address bang on.
AFAIK, an it's AT&T modem and so in Canada it'll be a roaming arrangement. They could have different arrangements in different countries, especially Europe, but anyway it won't matter if generally there are plenty of carriers in the area, you need to know THE carrier and whether they have good coverage where you are. :-/

In my experience the FordPass app does a better job of getting the charge location address correct.

What I saw today is that if I delete my home location from the car, then add it again, it initially just shows at a lat/long location, and then the car does a lookup to approximate the address. The car is using a different search than the FordPass app, so because I am on a corner and my garage is on the side street the car gets the address on the side street, which is not my actual address. The FordPass app gets my actual address. The addresses do not agree, but with the car backed out of the garage and open air view of the sky, it seems at least the lat/long coords are correct, and how it is displayed is largely cosmetic, AFAICT; the lat/long is what matters most.

If you're trying to get this to work and you're ignoring the FordPass app as an avenue for setting and verifying the charge settings, that's probably part of the problem. It should of course "just work" but it isn't working for you and if I understand you correctly you're trying to do it all from the car and not FordPass and that's a difference. I ultimately got it working, but from the FordPass app.

Whether or not the car is running is a factor even when changing the settings from the FordPass app. Today, I noticed that when changing the settings from the car it wanted to call the deleted and re-added location "Default" and I couldn't get it to rename to "Home" until I shut the car off. If the car was running and I tried to change the name via FordPass it would appear to save as "Home" but quickly reverted to "Default" and in the car it said "Default" all along.

So there is definitely a tug-of-war between Sync and the FordPass there, with FordPass ultimately "winning" after a few tries, once the car was shut off.

One reason I favor using the FordPass app for setting the charge schedule (other than it ultimately does work FOR ME), is that from the app I can request "recommended" settings based on my energy provider and it gets the time-of-day rates correct automatically (half the cost from 11p - 9a weekdays, anytime on weekends vs. 2x the cost any other time). I can of course manually make those schedules in the car, but I want Ford to know my energy provider so they can cross-reference the costs based on time of day with my provider.

But as I said trying to do all of this strictly from the car is unreliable for me and it seems, same is true for you. HTH. Good luck! =D
 

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We had this problem. Check with your dealer to see if they have access to the required software fix. Ours is fixed now, 100% confirmed. But it may take some doing for your dealer to get the software fix, in lieu of an over-the-air update.

BTW, the reason I know ours is 100% fixed is because I am able to snoop on what the FordPass app is doing and there is an API that shows the 12 volt battery status. It used to show:

Code:
"battery": {
      "batteryHealth": {
        "value": "STATUS_LOW",
        "timestamp": "02-23-2021 22:39:58"
      },
      "batteryStatusActual": {
        "value": 12,
        "status": "CURRENT",
        "timestamp": "02-24-2021 19:01:19"
      }
}
But now I can see that when the Mach-E is doing a "conditioning" cycle, every six hours, it is actually topping off the battery:

Code:
"battery": {
      "batteryHealth": {
        "value": "STATUS_GOOD",
        "timestamp": "02-25-2021 16:39:58"
      },
      "batteryStatusActual": {
        "value": 15,
        "status": "CURRENT",
        "timestamp": "02-25-2021 13:01:19"
      }
}
15V Is also what the 12V accessory socket shows when the Mach-E is running and the LVB is being topped off constantly by the HVB. This behavior proves to me that the LVB is getting topped every 6 hours.
This is great. I am very sure the HVB is not topping off my LVB every 6 hours - I dont see the spike in the EVSE charger logs - should I ask the dealer for the update?
 

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This is great. I am very sure the HVB is not topping off my LVB every 6 hours - I dont see the spike in the EVSE charger logs - should I ask the dealer for the update?
Not necessarily "every 6 hours" but I think you'll see some activity once per day. When we had single digit temps it was about every 6 hours. As it warmed up the time between charge activity increased.
 

JellyBelly

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Not necessarily "every 6 hours" but I think you'll see some activity once per day. When we had single digit temps it was about every 6 hours. As it warmed up the time between charge activity increased.
Yes makes sense - will keep checking
 

AEtherScythe

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This is great. I am very sure the HVB is not topping off my LVB every 6 hours - I dont see the spike in the EVSE charger logs - should I ask the dealer for the update?
For starters, the FordPass app isn't showing all the charging events nor the "conditioning" nor the 12V battery charging events (which personally I have never seen)...

Looking back at the data from my ChargePoint charger (not the FordPass app), it does seem as if the car calls for more LVB charging the colder it is outside. It isn't strictly on a six hour interval, especially since the temperatures have inched well above freezing during the day these past few days. I don't see the "conditioning" messages as frequently now that it's warmer out, nor does my ChargePoint charger show the vehicle taking power on regular intervals. It does seem as though the car calls for LVB charging power only as needed.

If you want to monitor LVB charge patterns, yourself, I can tell you how I'm doing it...

I am using a for-pay app call "HTTP Catcher" with the SSL decrypt in-app purchase. When enabled it turns on a VPN which the FordPass app must go through. The FordPass app thinks it's negotiating SSL with the Ford endpoints but in reality the HTTP Catcher is doing the negotiation and repeating same with the Ford endpoints. That allows the HTTP Catcher to intercept the communications in the middle.

Under this arrangement, you can then view the the REST calls and responses In the HTTP Catcher. The API of interest is of the following form:

https://usapi.cv.ford.com/api/vehicles/v4/{vin}/status?lrdt=01-01-1970%2000:00:00

That is the one that will have the battery statuses like the one I pasted above.
 

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For starters, the FordPass app isn't showing all the charging events nor the "conditioning" nor the 12V battery charging events (which personally I have never seen)...

Looking back at the data from my ChargePoint charger (not the FordPass app), it does seem as if the car calls for more LVB charging the colder it is outside. It isn't strictly on a six hour interval, especially since the temperatures have inched well above freezing during the day these past few days. I don't see the "conditioning" messages as frequently now that it's warmer out, nor does my ChargePoint charger show the vehicle taking power on regular intervals. It does seem as though the car calls for LVB charging power only as needed.

If you want to monitor LVB charge patterns, yourself, I can tell you how I'm doing it...

I am using a for-pay app call "HTTP Catcher" with the SSL decrypt in-app purchase. When enabled it turns on a VPN which the FordPass app must go through. The FordPass app thinks it's negotiating SSL with the Ford endpoints but in reality the HTTP Catcher is doing the negotiation and repeating same with the Ford endpoints. That allows the HTTP Catcher to intercept the communications in the middle.

Under this arrangement, you can then view the the REST calls and responses In the HTTP Catcher. The API of interest is of the following form:

https://usapi.cv.ford.com/api/vehicles/v4/{vin}/status?lrdt=01-01-1970%2000:00:00

That is the one that will have the battery statuses like the one I pasted above.
Thats great info thanks. I am in nicer weather location, so not cold issues and perhaps that is why I dont see the frequent charge spikes. May be as I drive and use more will see them. Will try out what you explained above. Thanks
 

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I am using a for-pay app call "HTTP Catcher" with the SSL decrypt in-app purchase. When enabled it turns on a VPN which the FordPass app must go through. The FordPass app thinks it's negotiating SSL with the Ford endpoints but in reality the HTTP Catcher is doing the negotiation and repeating same with the Ford endpoints. That allows the HTTP Catcher to intercept the communications in the middle.
Paging @Ford Team ... Can you please fix this?

Your cloud services should be verifying trust of the client's certificates before giving them PII or vehicle status and controls.
 

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Paging @Ford Team ... Can you please fix this?

Your cloud services should be verifying trust of the client's certificates before giving them PII or vehicle status and controls.
That's not really possible. This is the difference between HTTPS authentication (verify you are really talking to the valid server) vs. HTTP mutual authentication (verify the client). But that breaks anytime you are behind a proxy server. That would break the car in quite a number of real situations. Also, the APIs are documented at developer.ford.com.
 

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Paging @Ford Team ... Can you please fix this?

Your cloud services should be verifying trust of the client's certificates before giving them PII or vehicle status and controls.
This can only happen between me and my authentication in the FordPass app and the Ford backend. This has nothing to do with any other person. I am only spying on myself. If you want to spy on yourself also, that is your prerogative.
 

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That's not really possible. This is the difference between HTTPS authentication (verify you are really talking to the valid server) vs. HTTP mutual authentication (verify the client). But that breaks anytime you are behind a proxy server. That would break the car in quite a number of real situations. Also, the APIs are documented at developer.ford.com.
There are a number of ways to fix this.

I'm not a security guy, so I'm sure there are holes in this strategy, but it seems like the current situation would be improved if the app and the server each enforced a private (trusted cert chain), encrypted session with the server during the user's first login to their account. At that time, keys could be generated, exchanged, and stored securely in app private storage in Android or iOS. Then in all future API calls, sensitive JSON strings could be encrypted before being posted to the https server.

That initial trust set up would require the app to verify the server's certs as being Ford's and not someone else's. Since Ford controls the apps in the app stores and they control the servers, this is pretty easy to arrange. If someone side loads the app for some reason, then all bets are off... But that's just one of many risks an individual takes when choosing to side load an app.

This can only happen between me and my authentication in the FordPass app and the Ford backend. This has nothing to do with any other person. I am only spying on myself. If you want to spy on yourself also, that is your prerogative.
My employer's Internet traffic flows through an intercepting proxy much like the app you paid for, except at an enterprise-wide scale. All TLS/SSL traffic (other than sites added to an exception list) appears to be signed by their certs instead of the originators'.

Doesn't this suggest that if you were to sign into my company's WiFi, someone in IT at the company could see, in plain text, the traffic between your phone and @Ford Team's servers?

What I would not want is to encounter a similar arrangement at a hotel or restaurant, for example, where an untrusted party is able to copy and make use of my keys to my car simply because FordPass accessed the Internet while I was connected to their WiFi. Even if they are less privileged than "full access" keys and unable to put the car into Drive, I wouldn't want them to even be able to remote start it or unlock its doors.
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