Range concern

[JellyBelly]

We need more reviews on the real world range . We have about million reviews about the Bells and whistles.

Yes we do need more real world data - if you search this forum there are many discussions about the range but until we have many MMEs on the road and lots of data points in different seasons, we just wont know what we are likely to get. Most concern is long trips than daily use and we dont have much data on that. There are some reviews that discuss the range topic

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[ARK]

Exactly. I feel like people forget that YMMV applies to ICE as well, in that it takes really the best of driving conditions and conservative driving to get the window sticker MPG. And it can REALLY vary even with ICE vehicles. As an example, if a car has a 10 gallon tank and a stated 40mpg and I'm driving, I'll get that 400 miles to a tank at least. Because I drive to maximize my mileage at all times to the point where I don't really even look at my speed, but rather my MPG gauge lolol. My wife would probably get 30 at best. That's a 100 mile difference per tank. People overlook it since gas stations are so prevalent, but for those of you with the ability to charge at home, the issue of charge times is completely negated unless you're on a long trip.

In fact, when I had either my second or third Fusion, Ford sent out $800 checks because the car wasn't getting the promised MPG to such an extent as to be at risk of class action (or maybe the check was due to a class action settlement. I didn't really look into it, just cashed the check lol).

This is true but the key difference is gas stations are everywhere and it only takes a few minutes to refuel, so whether you are getting good, great, or subpar mileage on any given trip is not nearly as consequential as on a BEV given current charging tech and availability of public chargers.

 

[silverelan]

I am more worried that the GT's will just take too much of a range hit, especially the performance version.

Yeah, it's a legit concern of mine too. If the MME ER packs charged to 80% faster, like 30-35 mins, it actually wouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[BadgerGreg]

I understand this is different from trim but I have not seen any real world picture on the dashboard showing 250+ mile or 310 mile on EXTENDED RANGE VERSION . I am very skeptical about the purchase. There is always the MANY factors that affect the range.

Any input on acceptable Range variations?

Looking at the reviews that have been written (as well as the video reviews), the actual range is as advertised (270 / 300 miles for the Premium ER versions), at least for nominal conditions. Edmunds reviewed the Premium ER against the Model Y and tested it for real-world mileage. Bottom line, the MME overperformed (higher mileage than advertised) and the Tesla Model Y underperformed. Keep in mind that this test was in warm California.

In colder climates, the mileage has been documented to be below EPA estimates, and that's no surprise because all BEVs are like that. Teslas tested in cold weather are coming up 20%+ shy of their EPA mileage estimates; same with the MME. With the MME, in all cases the indicated range is lower than what you end up getting. That's not a terrible thing...it's just conservative.

 

[Fat Mach]

OP- How many miles do you need?

 

[Racing_Andy]

How many HP do you think you'll need to maintain a constant 75 MPH on a flat?

Good question, and one that I was curious about as well!
The short answer is about 37.

The long answer is the public EPA data lists the force required to move the car as a function of velocity, which gives us enough information to answer this. For the AWD version, this is the EPA equation:
Force (lbf) = 0.02086*V^2 + 0.2604*V + 46.77

That equation is all we need to calculate the drive power at different speeds. To estimate the range, I had to make some assumptions, which I'll list at the bottom.

The range number in this graph assumes using all 88 kWh in the battery at 95% efficiency and a constant 2kW electric load for things like climate control and radio. To be fair, I just made those up because I don't know what the system efficiency is, and the "non-drive" electric load will vary greatly based on climate control especially. Also, this is accurate for the ambient conditions specified by the EPA, which I haven't been able to find yet.

It is eye opening how speed dependent the range is. This is something we should all keep in mind as "real world" range tests start coming out.

 

[mattbostonmache]

Is there a website or app that community members can log the BEV fill-ups (I guess it's really charge-ups).

On EVs, it would be better than gas cars since an app data sync should be possible.

Fully is a simple version of this for ICE cars:

 

[RedStormREHS]

Looks like max range is highest in city driving -- especially in 25-50 MPH zones. This is ideal for congested highway & city travel. Ha, great for So. Cal! Honestly, greater than 95% of us drive under 75 miles to work or school roundtrip. Large majority of BEV drivers will then charge at home. If you need to take a long road trip, plan ahead for public DCFCs. I agree, we should all log and share real world range in our MMEs!

 

[JamieGeek]

Is there a website or app that community members can log the BEV fill-ups (I guess it's really charge-ups).

On EVs, it would be better than gas cars since an app data sync should be possible.

Fully is a simple version of this for ICE cars:

You can use fuelly:

(Wow; haven't used fuelly in a long time, forgot I had an account LOL)

 

[Ma9573]

This is true but the key difference is gas stations are everywhere and it only takes a few minutes to refuel, so whether you are getting good, great, or subpar mileage on any given trip is not nearly as consequential as on a BEV given current charging tech and availability of public chargers.

Oh totally. As I mentioned that problem is completely solved for those that can charge at home and aren't traveling more than the car's range 95% of days.

But it is an entirely different scenario for someone like me without a garage that also drives a ton. Seriously, I'm like the poster child for someone that should wait a few years to go BEV - A street parker that's in sales covering all of NorCal and Northern Nevada, often driving farther than the stated range in a single day (SF to Reno or Fresno or Chico, etc). I'll definitely be driving as conservatively as I can to take advantage of full range. Folks with my situational demographics will mostly need/want to wait until the range increases a bit more, charge times get closer to 200 miles of range added in 15-20 minutes (as opposed to 10-80%, 200 miles in 45 minutes like the Mach E), and chargers become more prevalent.

I think I can make it work based on my purchase of an Energi as a use case 4+ years ago. But it's definitely not for everyone.

 

[DBC]

Good question, and one that I was curious about as well!
The short answer is about 37.
...
The range number in this graph assumes using all 88 kWh in the battery at 95% efficiency and a constant 2kW electric load for things like climate control and radio. To be fair, I just made those up because I don't know what the system efficiency is, and the "non-drive" electric load will vary greatly based on climate control especially.

Really nice chart!

I think the calculated numbers are too high, the estimated drive train efficiency is too high, and the power needed for accessories is way too high. The latter two tend to cancel out though.

But definitely in the ballpark. I'd guess 250 miles rather than 232 at 70 MPH but we'll see. For example I get over 3.5 miles/kWh for a Bolt in Freeway driving, which is mostly in the 68-78 MPH range. That's in hilly terrain which takes a toll even with regen.

As you point out, if you're worried about range use adaptive cruise control and reduce the speed to 68 MPH and be there. People act as if the car delivers a certain range. In practice the car delivers a certain number of kWh and the three Ts determine how many miles those kWh turn into.

 

[DBC]

I think I can make it work based on my purchase of an Energi as a use case 4+ years ago. But it's definitely not for everyone.

Rarely is anyone as clear eyed about this as you are. So if anyone can make it work it's probably you.

You may really be able to use the hands free driver assist.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Exactly. I feel like people forget that YMMV applies to ICE as well, in that it takes really the best of driving conditions and conservative driving to get the window sticker MPG.

that's impossible! /s

I think the reason most people care more in BEVs is the charging infrastructure. For most people getting gas is an easy enough thing (setting aside paying for it for the moment - I'm talking about station distribution/availability) that range doesn't come up, especially (now going back to paying) in days of "cheap" gas.

When gas was "expensive" (*), people were paying thousands and thousands of dollars for used beater Geo Metros because 50+ MPG.

(*) this is relative. In HI and all the non-US, they pay a lot more than we do... so I'm talking from a US viewpoint without taking into account inflation over time, etc.

 

[Fat Mach]

Oh totally. As I mentioned that problem is completely solved for those that can charge at home and aren't traveling more than the car's range 95% of days.

But it is an entirely different scenario for someone like me without a garage that also drives a ton. Seriously, I'm like the poster child for someone that should wait a few years to go BEV - A street parker that's in sales covering all of NorCal and Northern Nevada, often driving farther than the stated range in a single day (SF to Reno or Fresno or Chico, etc). I'll definitely be driving as conservatively as I can to take advantage of full range. Folks with my situational demographics will mostly need/want to wait until the range increases a bit more, charge times get closer to 200 miles of range added in 15-20 minutes (as opposed to 10-80%, 200 miles in 45 minutes like the Mach E), and chargers become more prevalent.

I think I can make it work based on my purchase of an Energi as a use case 4+ years ago. But it's definitely not for everyone.

Dang, you're a glutton for punishment- living in SF AND no garage. I suspect you're going to get irritated with having to either constantly be on the lookout for a place to charge, or finding a spot that's reasonably convenient and spending a LOT of time there. I admire the gumption though.

 

[dbsb3233]

Frankly, we don't get that consistency with ICE vehicles either, we just don't notice as much because gas stations are more abundant than EV chargers.

And because refueling gas only takes 1/10th as long.

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