Adventures having an L2 charger installed

[dbsb3233]

I’m looking to do pretty much the same thing. What did they charge you for this?

Mine charged ~$950 for a 40' run thru the crawlspace from the outside panel (had room for one wide breaker left, but they did have to rearrange a few). Used maybe 10' of conduit in the garage, 14-50 outlet, 6ga wire, all heavy duty metal. Took 2 guys 3-4 hours.

Titus Electrical, but they're on the north side of the city. I don't think they serve all the way down to Centennial.

Note that this is when the 30% federal tax credit was still in effect. It's possible market price has adjusted downward some now without the credit. (Then again, inflation is jacking everything up now so maybe not.)

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[SigSauer]

Our electrician, Shelley, was fantastic. First, she informed us that our free standing garage was wired incorrectly. That had to be addressed, she added a two hundred amp box with two switches. One for the garage and one for our generator. The garage side must be switched off and the generator must be switched on allowing the generator to power the house and the garage. Across the garage she added a sub panel, lights, door opener, and a 50 amp breaker and line to the charger box. We are ready to go, except for one thing, no car!! Delayed, again, to end of the month.

PM me and I'll provide Shelly's info - 25 years an electrician, central Ohio, reasonable pricing.

 

[wombats3]

Mine charged ~$950 for a 40' run thru the crawlspace from the outside panel (had room for one wide breaker left, but they did have to rearrange a few). Used maybe 10' of conduit in the garage, 14-50 outlet, 6ga wire, all heavy duty metal. Took 2 guys 3-4 hours.

Titus Electrical, but they're on the north side of the city. I don't think they serve all the way down to Centennial.

Note that this is when the 30% federal tax credit was still in effect. It's possible market price has adjusted downward some now without the credit. (Then again, inflation is jacking everything up now so maybe not.)

Perfect, thanks so much! I have one quote at $950 and one at $2,400!! I may call these guys to get one more.

By the way, how are you enjoying the car? How’s the ride quality around the Denver area?

Appreciate it!

 

[RickMachE]

Perfect, thanks so much! I have one quote at $950 and one at $2,400!!

My quotes ranged from $950, with me getting and paying for permits (and the work done by journeymen) to over $4,000. Some said the job "required a separate meter" (not true), a subpanel (not true), or a load shedding device (also not true). I picked the second lowest bid after telling him I didn't need a load shedding device per the inspector. He confirmed that in a phone call, and did the work.

 

[P. T. Magoo]

Holy crap!

I'm more and more glad I did my own install. Pretty sure it will pass inspection but need to get that scheduled. The EVSE I installed back in 2014 did pass inspection. That one tops out at 30 amps on a 40 amp breaker so at some point I'll upgrade that from 8 gauge to 6 or 4. The new one tops out at 40 so it's on a 50 amp breaker with 4 conductor 6 g NM cable.

Looks like he used black THHN for both hots, which is why he wanted a longer spool. (if x = distance, he needed 2x length of black wire). Should have run white THHN for the neutral, if he was going to use the conduit for ground. I bet Minard's was out of white.

In your shoes, I'd shut the breaker off and take the cover off that 14-50 box the day I'm expecting the inspector, maybe take the cover off the service box too so the inspector can't miss the Rube Goldbergism.

Coulda been worse!

There could have been a clearance sale on vintage knob and tube...

 

[bshaw]

I think it's going to be just the opposite. From what I read, electric motors are about as efficient as they're ever going to get (just slight improvement left). Most of the efficiency difference comes from aerodynamic body shapes, and weight. Right now most EVs are smaller/lower aero designs. What's missing are the bigger/taller (thus heavier) SUVs that so much of the public wants. Those will be less efficient than current EVs, not more. We're already starting to see that with EV pickups now being introduced.

Yes, some weight will be saved as battery energy density improves, and that will help efficiency some. But I really think that will manifest as allowing the body styles and sizes the public actually wants. And the longer range they want.

That means more kWh. I think 100-150 kWh battery packs will be quite common later in the decade. And 400 mile range.

Still, in the future you describe, a 50A circuit will not become obsolete. In a multi-EV household, I would rather charge two cars simultaneously, then 1-car at a max charge rate.

The only exception I've heard of is the F-150 Lightning that can be used as a generator to your home during a power outage. If that is something you need, then the specs do require a 100A circuit to enable that capability. But otherwise, the Lightning will charge itself just fine from a 50A circuit overnight.

 

[ChrisC]

I posted this on my build week forum but thought a few more people might find this as hilarious as I did. I thought y'all would appreciate this story about getting my L2 charger installed. Ford recommended Qmerit for setting up the install - they take your details and put it out for bid from local contractors. Well they come back at $1750 to run a conduit across my 3-car garage (w/ permits) so I ask the sales rep for the local electrical contractor to at least use #4 wire instead of #6 at that price. I expect the next generation of EV's will (and some of the current ones already do) support higher charging rates and I may as well have it wired to support it now.

Anyway, the electrician comes in and he was something. First thing he did was complain about using #4 wire because it's harder to work with (no kidding, I'd do it myself if this was simple). So he gets to work and it was just one comedy after another. Some of the things that happened:

• He used a folding ladder but refused to unfold it fully and lock the arms. He'd either use it partially folder or completely folded and lean it against a workbench. Twice the ladder collapsed and I come over to find him sprawled on the ground with the ladder on top of him.
• He forgot he was doing a NEMA 14-50 outlet and only ran 3 wires instead of 4. Then decided to repurpose the ground wire as neutral and connected ground to the conduit. Not sure this will actually pass inspection which may force them back out here.
• Pulled the anchor holding the conduit out of the ceiling trying to fish the wire through it.
• Went on a wild rant that his supplier gave him 110' of #4 wire instead of the 120' he requested. The job only needed 100' - but he told me he sells the remnants for scrap.
  • He actually had 120', he measured out a 55' segment, cut it and then another and had 10' left over but insisted he measured out only 50'. He used arm lengths of wire to measure the length and counted it out loud, measuring out 55'.
• Didn't turn off power to the panel when installing the breaker - shocked himself twice.
• Forgot which slots on the breaker panel he installed the breaker, then punched out the wrong ones on the panel cover. Couldn't find blanks and it's against code to leave them open, so he installed 2 extra 15A breakers and labelled them as spares to meet code.
• After he left, I open the panel and am shocked to see a 40A breaker in the panel instead of a 50A. Call the company and they send him back out. He tells me he couldn't find a 50A breaker in his truck and thought a 40A would be enough. I pointed out it's a 40A charger and he admitted it'd definitely pop the breaker the first time I connected it to the car. He found a 50A breaker to install.
• Best part was - after he came back to install the proper breaker - he handed me a business card in case I needed more electrical work and he freelances on the side.

Wow! Some contractors make all those in the profession look bad! It is things like this where I stopped paying for a home warranty because of the poor quality tradespeople they would send out. I have my go-to electrician in mind when my EVSEs come in to get them installed. Sorry you went through all this unnecessary drama.

 

[dbsb3233]

Perfect, thanks so much! I have one quote at $950 and one at $2,400!! I may call these guys to get one more.

By the way, how are you enjoying the car? How’s the ride quality around the Denver area?

Appreciate it!

Love the car on the whole. Especially on road trips. We drive to Vegas a lot (6 trips since getting it). It's smooth as butter on the interstates and good roads there. And super quiet, and comfortable. Local roads, not as much. Probably my #1 disappointment with the car is the harsh, jarring ride over our rather crappy local roads here. It's not horrible, but it's more jarring than our 2013 Escape, for example. I expected better from a $59,000 car.

And it's got a lot of quirks, mostly software-based. 90% of the stuff works well though. Just a number of little things to work around. Work in progress.

But overall the pros way outweigh the cons. I think you'll love it.

 

[dbsb3233]

Still, in the future you describe, a 50A circuit will not become obsolete. In a multi-EV household, I would rather charge two cars simultaneously, then 1-car at a max charge rate.

The only exception I've heard of is the F-150 Lightning that can be used as a generator to your home during a power outage. If that is something you need, then the specs do require a 100A circuit to enable that capability. But otherwise, the Lightning will charge itself just fine from a 50A circuit overnight.

Oh ITA about 50A being sufficient for the vast majority. Most people are home overnight for 12+ hours, and rarely ever need a full battery charge nightly. Even at just 2.0 MPK (mi/kWh), a 6kw charger adds 72 kWh in 12 hours (144 miles). Way more than enough for 98% of the public. And 50A could handle a 9.6kW charger if needing more.

I was only referring to the battery sizes. I think they'll be going up on average(kWh), not down.

* Although time of day electricity rates impact many, and shorten that 12 hours to maybe ~8.

 

[hapa1989]

I’m looking to do pretty much the same thing. What did they charge you for this?

$1375 total which included replacing a separate breaker that needed to be moved in order to accommodate the new breaker. They also installed a water cover over the outlet since it's close to the garage door and potentially could get hit by rain.

 

[Rk808]

I posted this on my build week forum but thought a few more people might find this as hilarious as I did. I thought y'all would appreciate this story about getting my L2 charger installed. Ford recommended Qmerit for setting up the install - they take your details and put it out for bid from local contractors. Well they come back at $1750 to run a conduit across my 3-car garage (w/ permits) so I ask the sales rep for the local electrical contractor to at least use #4 wire instead of #6 at that price. I expect the next generation of EV's will (and some of the current ones already do) support higher charging rates and I may as well have it wired to support it now.

Anyway, the electrician comes in and he was something. First thing he did was complain about using #4 wire because it's harder to work with (no kidding, I'd do it myself if this was simple). So he gets to work and it was just one comedy after another. Some of the things that happened:

• He used a folding ladder but refused to unfold it fully and lock the arms. He'd either use it partially folder or completely folded and lean it against a workbench. Twice the ladder collapsed and I come over to find him sprawled on the ground with the ladder on top of him.
• He forgot he was doing a NEMA 14-50 outlet and only ran 3 wires instead of 4. Then decided to repurpose the ground wire as neutral and connected ground to the conduit. Not sure this will actually pass inspection which may force them back out here.
• Pulled the anchor holding the conduit out of the ceiling trying to fish the wire through it.
• Went on a wild rant that his supplier gave him 110' of #4 wire instead of the 120' he requested. The job only needed 100' - but he told me he sells the remnants for scrap.
  • He actually had 120', he measured out a 55' segment, cut it and then another and had 10' left over but insisted he measured out only 50'. He used arm lengths of wire to measure the length and counted it out loud, measuring out 55'.
• Didn't turn off power to the panel when installing the breaker - shocked himself twice.
• Forgot which slots on the breaker panel he installed the breaker, then punched out the wrong ones on the panel cover. Couldn't find blanks and it's against code to leave them open, so he installed 2 extra 15A breakers and labelled them as spares to meet code.
• After he left, I open the panel and am shocked to see a 40A breaker in the panel instead of a 50A. Call the company and they send him back out. He tells me he couldn't find a 50A breaker in his truck and thought a 40A would be enough. I pointed out it's a 40A charger and he admitted it'd definitely pop the breaker the first time I connected it to the car. He found a 50A breaker to install.
• Best part was - after he came back to install the proper breaker - he handed me a business card in case I needed more electrical work and he freelances on the side.

Lol has to be April fools

 

[canamrotax]

Just had a local electrical contractor install 2 NEMA 14-50 outlets (one at work, one at home) The first two I contacted were too busy, but no drama with the one we used. Telling them it's a 4 wire, electric stove outlet, gives them the right frame of mind, as then the 50AMP breaker makes sense.

 

[Sylon]

Is it bad to leave the mobile charger just hanging off the outlet like that?

 

[dbsb3233]

Is it bad to leave the mobile charger just hanging off the outlet like that?

I probably wouldn't do it more than a few days here or there. If it were hanging there regularly, I'd use the bracket to take the stress off the pigtail and the plug.

The pigtail is just a friction fit into the main unit. It's a tight fit, so it would likely hold for a while. But over time I'd wonder if it might loosen up with the weight of the EVSE pulling downward (especially if being seated/unseated regularly).

It's also a good idea not to keep much weight hanging from any outlet, as those contacts can loosen up over time too. It will also get jostled and pulled some every time you move the long cable to plug into the car.

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