DEAD CAR IN WINTER

[Maquis]

So you think I will never be slapping a new solid state lithium 12V in this? All good.

No, sir…but I’m certain I won’t be!

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[ab13]

Really not sure why Ford didn't start the MachE off with a Lithion Ion 12v. It's a known issue that 12v's tend to die prematurely in EV's.

Lithium ion is not good for low temperature. Low temperature is one of the weaknesses of electric cars due to limited free heat to get things up to temperature. Some battery cars won't allow operation at these temperatures unless left plugged in.

 

[Sitdown]

@mikeho @Thunderbirdsoundsbetter

Tagging a couple fellow recipients of the potential solution parts. As their time allows, hopefully they can chime in on any feedback since and what else beyond the BECM & HVBJB they may have replaced.

 

[Thunderbirdsoundsbetter]

I don’t know if the fixes would work at your extreme temp. I’m pretty sure it’ll die again.
I would trade the car in if I were you.
Good luck. Stay warm.

 

[mkhuffman]

Someone suggested a heating blanket plugged into the car, but that will drain the 12V battery also. What about a heating pad you can pick up at Walmart that is wrapped around the LVB? Could that work? You would need a 120V outlet close by or a long extension cord, but isn't that a fairly common thing for engine block heaters?

Just brainstorming - I have never lived in an area that experiences cold like @Shayne does.

 

[mikeho]

thanks @Sitdown !

Only HVBJB replaced for me and it's been 1.5 months with no issues. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, though, so I haven't experienced any extreme cold.

 

[mkhuffman]

It comes back on and charges it according to your OBD2 readings so no it should not die. Needs to do that every time it drains 10 iphones in 2 hours while not running much.

Nothing will happen at 26F I think you should be fine unplugged. It has nothing to do with not being plugged in or not I think. I am plugged in and it happens. It has to do with -15F here. A lead acid 12V at 40% soc should freeze when the temperature goes downs to 5F. If it is -15F and sitting at 40% soc one would think it can not be happy. I would think it sees a soc somewhere in between 40 and 90%. You can not let your 12V go to 40% soc up here in the winter. You also can not have a huge drain on the 12V which makes that condition happen over and over again. The fix will be interesting to see.

I finally got all my software modules updated on Monday (with an assist from @DevSecOps) and I did the unplug test again - this time when I unplugged there was no noticeable difference with how the car managed the LVB. This is very strong evidence that I had a problem that was solved by the software update, but I only did the previous test one time. It could be there was something weird happening then.

But as others have said, the HVB should maintain the LVB. And it looks like it charges the LVB every time it hits 40% SOC, whether it is plugged in or not. As it should be.

I suggest anyone having this problem do the test I did. Maybe you have some software modules that need to be updated. Maybe. It is an easy fix if that is all that is needed.

When I started logging the data above, the car was unplugged. I plugged in and started charging to 100% at 20:00. When it reached 100% at around 12:30 AM, you can see it goes into battery maint mode. At 8:30 AM I unplugged the car. Nothing changed in how the car was maintaining the battery. You can barely see a blip in the graph.

At 14:53 I connected an external 13.7V power supply. That is why the battery charged up to 100%. Which I don't think was correct, because it adjusted back to 90% later, which I think is correct.

This is how it should behave.

BTW - made some edits a few minutes after posting. Sorry if you are quicker than me.

 

[Dhruval Shah]

I finally got all my software modules updated on Monday (with an assist from @DevSecOps) and I did the unplug test again - this time when I unplugged there was no noticeable difference with how the car managed the LVB. This is very strong evidence that I had a problem that was solved by the software update, but I only did the previous test one time. It could be there was something weird happening then.

But as others have said, the HVB should maintain the LVB. And it looks like it charges the LVB every time it hits 40% SOC, whether it is plugged in or not. As it should be.

I suggest anyone having this problem do the test I did. Maybe you have some software modules that need to be updated. Maybe. It is an easy fix if that is all that is needed.

When I started logging the data above, the car was unplugged. I plugged in and started charging to 100% at 20:00. When it reached 100% at around 12:30 AM, you can see it goes into battery maint mode. At 8:30 AM I unplugged the car. Nothing changed in how the car was maintaining the battery. You can barely see a blip in the graph.

At 14:53 I connected an external 13.7V power supply. That is why the battery charged up to 100%. Which I don't think was correct, because it adjusted back to 90% later, which I think is correct.

This is how it should behave.

BTW - made some edits a few minutes after posting. Sorry if you are quicker than me.

What was the temparature when you performed the test? My dealership updated every module, but issue was not solved. Mine has something to do with extreme cold weather and my car is in for HVJB and BECM replacement.

 

[DevSecOps]

What was the temparature when you performed the test? My dealership updated every module, but issue was not solved. Mine has something to do with extreme cold weather and my car is in for HVJB and BECM replacement.

You're the 3rd vehicle that I've seen that's had the same equipment replaced. People are incorrectly attributing this to the LVB thinking that the LVB is dying due to the climate. In reality it's the HVB being disabled by errors within either the harness, modules or HVB battery sensors and therefore the car won't start, which can be climate related.

Continual attempts at starting the car eventually drain the LVB because the HVB can't top it off due to being disabled.

I've edited this post to reflect information obtained after posting and to better clarify the root cause.

 

[Dhruval Shah]

If they are replacing the wiring harness and battery control module it's unlikely to be because of the cold.

You're the 3rd vehicle that I've seen that's had the same equipment replaced. People are incorrectly attributing this to the cold because they think the LVB is dying due to the climate. In reality it's the HVB being disabled by errors within either the harness, modules or HVB battery sensors and therefore the car won't start.

Continual attempts at starting the car eventually drain the LVB because the HVB can't top it off due to being disabled.

I bought the car back in April 2021 and no issues as soon as temparature dropped below -10C/14F. The car started dying when unplugged even for a 30 minutes. This makes me think that weather has to do something with it.

 

[mkhuffman]

What was the temparature when you performed the test? My dealership updated every module, but issue was not solved. Mine has something to do with extreme cold weather and my car is in for HVJB and BECM replacement.

It was in my garage, so not cold at all. I was only measuring if the car would maintain the battery when unplugged, which it didn't seem to do before.

While the dealer said they updated all your modules, maybe they didn't. Have you had someone check your VIN to see if you have any open updates?

If you have the problem @DevSecOps is talking about, updating the modules won't make any difference. I just suggested it since my car seemed to have an issue that could result in a dead LVB prior to the updates. And maybe someone else has the same issue. (I never experienced a low or dead LVB, and the climate in VA is not extreme. I just did a test and saw what looked like an issue.)

 

[Dhruval Shah]

It was in my garage, so not cold at all. I was only measuring if the car would maintain the battery when unplugged, which it didn't seem to do before.

While the dealer said they updated all your modules, maybe they didn't. Have you had someone check your VIN to see if you have any open updates?

If you have the problem @DevSecOps is talking about, updating the modules won't make any difference. I just suggested it since my car seemed to have an issue that could result in a dead LVB prior to the updates. And maybe someone else has the same issue. (I never experienced a low or dead LVB, and the climate in VA is not extreme. I just did a test and saw what looked like an issue.)

Can someone run my VIN to check the updates?

 

[DevSecOps]

I bought the car back in April 2021 and no issues as soon as temparature dropped below -10C/14F. The car started dying when unplugged even for a 30 minutes. This makes me think that weather has to do something with it.

One is a harness and the other is a battery control module. The only possible thing that I could imagine would be water getting into the harness or junction box, freezing, expanding and causing the circuit to remain open. I haven't seen any confirmation of that happening but it could be possible.

@mkhuffman the process of topping off the LVB is software controlled, I think you might be the first person to test the LVB effects using new software. I only noticed the charge curve, but admittedly never thought to check the LVB.

 

[DevSecOps]

Can someone run my VIN to check the updates?

DM me

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

The root cause of this issue is hardware based and temperature dependent

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