Adventures having an L2 charger installed

[A-A-Ron]

I posted this on my build week forum but thought a few more people might find this as hilarious as I did. I thought y'all would appreciate this story about getting my L2 charger installed. Ford recommended Qmerit for setting up the install - they take your details and put it out for bid from local contractors. Well they come back at $1750 to run a conduit across my 3-car garage (w/ permits) so I ask the sales rep for the local electrical contractor to at least use #4 wire instead of #6 at that price. I expect the next generation of EV's will (and some of the current ones already do) support higher charging rates and I may as well have it wired to support it now.

Anyway, the electrician comes in and he was something. First thing he did was complain about using #4 wire because it's harder to work with (no kidding, I'd do it myself if this was simple). So he gets to work and it was just one comedy after another. Some of the things that happened:

• He used a folding ladder but refused to unfold it fully and lock the arms. He'd either use it partially folder or completely folded and lean it against a workbench. Twice the ladder collapsed and I come over to find him sprawled on the ground with the ladder on top of him.
• He forgot he was doing a NEMA 14-50 outlet and only ran 3 wires instead of 4. Then decided to repurpose the ground wire as neutral and connected ground to the conduit. Not sure this will actually pass inspection which may force them back out here.
• Pulled the anchor holding the conduit out of the ceiling trying to fish the wire through it.
• Went on a wild rant that his supplier gave him 110' of #4 wire instead of the 120' he requested. The job only needed 100' - but he told me he sells the remnants for scrap.
  • He actually had 120', he measured out a 55' segment, cut it and then another and had 10' left over but insisted he measured out only 50'. He used arm lengths of wire to measure the length and counted it out loud, measuring out 55'.
• Didn't turn off power to the panel when installing the breaker - shocked himself twice.
• Forgot which slots on the breaker panel he installed the breaker, then punched out the wrong ones on the panel cover. Couldn't find blanks and it's against code to leave them open, so he installed 2 extra 15A breakers and labelled them as spares to meet code.
• After he left, I open the panel and am shocked to see a 40A breaker in the panel instead of a 50A. Call the company and they send him back out. He tells me he couldn't find a 50A breaker in his truck and thought a 40A would be enough. I pointed out it's a 40A charger and he admitted it'd definitely pop the breaker the first time I connected it to the car. He found a 50A breaker to install.
• Best part was - after he came back to install the proper breaker - he handed me a business card in case I needed more electrical work and he freelances on the side.

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[GoGoGadgetMachE]

He forgot he was doing a NEMA 14-50 outlet and only ran 3 wires instead of 4. Then decided to repurpose the ground wire as neutral and connected ground to the conduit. Not sure this will actually pass inspection which may force them back out here.

this will absolutely not pass inspection if the inspector is paying any attention, but I know from experience that there are "old school" electricians that argue "it all goes back to the same place at the breaker box so what difference does it make".

 

[A-A-Ron]

this will absolutely not pass inspection if the inspector is paying any attention, but I know from experience that there are "old school" electricians that argue "it all goes back to the same place at the breaker box so what difference does it make".

Yeah, and I'll point it out. Easier to tell the company it failed inspection than to argue it on my own.

 

[RickMachE]

Mine showed up with no wire. As they were calling around for wire, I reminded them that they needed to get 4 conductor, not 3, in case I want to switch to an outlet. They finally found some and went and bought it.

Also, I told them I wasn't paying until the inspection was passed, and they said that's normal. Inspector didn't open anything except the panel cover. I explained that they had combined two light circuits to make an open slot, and such. He never opened the work box they put on the garage wall. But it's inspected.

 

[hapa1989]

The biggest struggle for me was actually finding an electrician to come out. I called/messaged five companies to request a quote, only three scheduled a time to come out and take a look. Of the three, only ONE actually showed up. The others no-showed. So I was fortunate that the one that actually did show up was really professional and fair in pricing.

They put in about 75-100 feet from panel in basement to the far corner of our garage where the outlet would be within 10 feet of both cars. I showed them the specs of the charger to make sure they installed the right outlet and wire. Up and working now and no problems.?

 

[bshaw]

I expect the next generation of EV's will (and some of the current ones already do) support higher charging rates and I may as well have it wired to support it now.

I don't agree with this sentiment. As EVs become more efficient in the future, the batteries will typically become smaller and therefore need *less* current in a home setting.
For future upgradeability, you'd probably be better served by running multiple #6 runs from your panel to different areas of your garage so you could charge more than a single EV at a time using 40A for each.

 

[Maquis]

I don't agree with this sentiment. As EVs become more efficient in the future, the batteries will typically become smaller and therefore need *less* current in a home setting.
For future upgradeability, you'd probably be better served by running multiple #6 runs from your panel to different areas of your garage so you could charge more than a single EV at a time using 40A for each.

That may be true in 10 years, but if you buy a Lightning ER, it comes with the Ford Charge Station Pro that is capable of 80A charging, requiring a 100A circuit in order to utilize the full capacity.

 

[Maquis]

this will absolutely not pass inspection if the inspector is paying any attention, but I know from experience that there are "old school" electricians that argue "it all goes back to the same place at the breaker box so what difference does it make".

Not sure if your talking about using the conduit as ground, or re-purposing the ground wire as a neutral, so I’ll comment on both.

Using metallic conduit as the EGC is not only code-compliant, but it actually provides lower resistance back to the panel than a wire.

If he ran a green wire for the ground, it is not code-compliant to use green for a neutral. It will function just fine, but green wire cannot be used for anything but ground - even re-identifing using white tape (legal for other colors) is not allowed. And if the circuit originates from a sub panel, the ground and neutral connect to a different buss.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Not sure if your talking about using the conduit as ground, or re-purposing the ground wire as a neutral, so I’ll comment on both.

(snip)

If he ran a green wire for the ground, it is not code-compliant to use green for a neutral.

I was referring to this, using the ground wire as a neutral stand-in.

 

[Mawby]

I posted this on my build week forum but thought a few more people might find this as hilarious as I did. I thought y'all would appreciate this story about getting my L2 charger installed. Ford recommended Qmerit for setting up the install - they take your details and put it out for bid from local contractors. Well they come back at $1750 to run a conduit across my 3-car garage (w/ permits) so I ask the sales rep for the local electrical contractor to at least use #4 wire instead of #6 at that price. I expect the next generation of EV's will (and some of the current ones already do) support higher charging rates and I may as well have it wired to support it now.

Anyway, the electrician comes in and he was something. First thing he did was complain about using #4 wire because it's harder to work with (no kidding, I'd do it myself if this was simple). So he gets to work and it was just one comedy after another. Some of the things that happened:

• He used a folding ladder but refused to unfold it fully and lock the arms. He'd either use it partially folder or completely folded and lean it against a workbench. Twice the ladder collapsed and I come over to find him sprawled on the ground with the ladder on top of him.
• He forgot he was doing a NEMA 14-50 outlet and only ran 3 wires instead of 4. Then decided to repurpose the ground wire as neutral and connected ground to the conduit. Not sure this will actually pass inspection which may force them back out here.
• Pulled the anchor holding the conduit out of the ceiling trying to fish the wire through it.
• Went on a wild rant that his supplier gave him 110' of #4 wire instead of the 120' he requested. The job only needed 100' - but he told me he sells the remnants for scrap.
  • He actually had 120', he measured out a 55' segment, cut it and then another and had 10' left over but insisted he measured out only 50'. He used arm lengths of wire to measure the length and counted it out loud, measuring out 55'.
• Didn't turn off power to the panel when installing the breaker - shocked himself twice.
• Forgot which slots on the breaker panel he installed the breaker, then punched out the wrong ones on the panel cover. Couldn't find blanks and it's against code to leave them open, so he installed 2 extra 15A breakers and labelled them as spares to meet code.
• After he left, I open the panel and am shocked to see a 40A breaker in the panel instead of a 50A. Call the company and they send him back out. He tells me he couldn't find a 50A breaker in his truck and thought a 40A would be enough. I pointed out it's a 40A charger and he admitted it'd definitely pop the breaker the first time I connected it to the car. He found a 50A breaker to install.
• Best part was - after he came back to install the proper breaker - he handed me a business card in case I needed more electrical work and he freelances on the side.

Ringing endorsement for sure. Wow! I would find a 240v hair dryer first and plug that in to test. Amazing.

 

[RickMachE]

That may be true in 10 years, but if you buy a Lightning ER, it comes with the Ford Charge Station Pro that is capable of 80A charging, requiring a 100A circuit in order to utilize the full capacity.

Yeah, I think if anything more is going to be needed, not less. One reason I bought a JB48, along with the fact that I can hook another JB48 to the same circuit (i.e. use the same workbox) and they will share the circuit parsing out power to whichever vehicle needs it.

 

[A-A-Ron]

Not sure if your talking about using the conduit as ground, or re-purposing the ground wire as a neutral, so I’ll comment on both.

Using metallic conduit as the EGC is not only code-compliant, but it actually provides lower resistance back to the panel than a wire.

If he ran a green wire for the ground, it is not code-compliant to use green for a neutral. It will function just fine, but green wire cannot be used for anything but ground - even re-identifing using white tape (legal for other colors) is not allowed. And if the circuit originates from a sub panel, the ground and neutral connect to a different buss.

He did indeed use green wire for neutral. I also only had a brief look as he was installing the outlet in the box but I'm pretty sure he tied the neutral and ground connections together at the outlet. Opening it up this weekend to actually take a better look at the install.

 

[Matt Bagne]

Was that Moe, Larry, or Curly on you job?

 

[A-A-Ron]

I don't agree with this sentiment. As EVs become more efficient in the future, the batteries will typically become smaller and therefore need *less* current in a home setting.
For future upgradeability, you'd probably be better served by running multiple #6 runs from your panel to different areas of your garage so you could charge more than a single EV at a time using 40A for each.

Of all the things in the story, that's what you took away? I got thicker wire for free, even if I'm wrong there's zero downside to the #4 wire.

 

[A-A-Ron]

Was that Moe, Larry, or Curly on you job?

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