Deep Sleep Mode - 12v battery drained dead [update: Mach-E jump started]

[tomterky]

Was the car plugged into 120 volt or 240 volt? 120 may not be enough juice to warm a cold battery and accept a charge.

plugged into 240v Clipper Creek HCS-50 hardwired on its own panel.

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[wmaney]

Good point!! I was thinking of ordering one but you just talked me out of it.

I posted this elsewhere - but wouldn't this work to get you both into the frunk and jump the battery? Not ideal but if you're concerned until something else can be be figured out:

Would something like this work in a backpack (many people carry purses / backpacks with them at all times)- just take it with you every time you leave the Mach-e? Not a wonderful solution but a solution?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BLM981K/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Larry]

I posted this elsewhere - but wouldn't this work to get you both into the frunk and jump the battery? Not ideal but if you're concerned until something else can be be figured out:

Would something like this work in a backpack (many people carry purses / backpacks with them at all times)- just take it with you every time you leave the Mach-e? Not a wonderful solution but a solution?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BLM981K/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Too much hassle. I think I’ll rely on roadside assistance.

 

[machefan]

In all honesty these issues were to be expected. Lets give Ford time to resolve these. If you were expecting the cars to be 100% right off the bat I think that is unrealistic. I am happy that my car will only be arriving sometime in May/June/July so that these can be worked out by the time I take ownership since this will be my main car.

Yes true, but I lowered my guard when I was told my MME was being boomeranged to the KC speedway for additional QC work. However until you have a larger sample of data it's hard to find problems. Now would be expected for them to start showing up since a large amount of deliveries are starting. Reminder that these issues as of right now are a very small community.

My MME is at the dealer and I am waiting for an update.

 

[JSW]

Being stranded in the cold is a significant worry for me, especially given that you were each “plugged in” at the time your cars were bricked. If they were adequately charged/charging at the time of the 12 volt failure, this is hard to explain.

Quick thoughts: (1) It‘s interesting how every issue that comes up we attribute to the ”this is why they were stopped in KC” phenomenon; (2) this makes us ”hope” that only models made before xyz date will have the problem(s); (3) mine was built on Nov. 13 and is getting closer to Detroit by the day (Indiana now), so I’m pretty concerned that I’ll fall prey to the earlier-builds-are-worse beliefs.

I admire how calm you and Coral are being about this.

 

[back_at_it_19]

I haven't driven my Mach-E in a week. She's been tucked away in the garage. I do go down and start her up every now and again, mostly just to play with settings and whatnot.

It stays plugged in, and I know now, thanks to my Wallbox smarts, that it does request power every now and again, even though it's "fully charged". I'm hoping it's doing this in order to keep that 12V juiced up, but not really sure. It only logs around 0.1kW of power delivered each time it happens.

Interesting.

 

[Maquis]

Back to the frunk popping issue, can somebody with a dead 12v test whether it'll pop if you just hook up a 9V battery? I'd like to know if this works next time. There's a chance it will!

Related question: Does this mean that any clown with a a 12V power source can access our frunk?

 

[Marcel]

Related question: Does this mean that any clown with a a 12V power source can access our frunk?

It only works if your LVB is empty...

 

[CHeil402]

Related question: Does this mean that any clown with a a 12V power source can access our frunk?

This is another thing someone needs to test. The theory is that there is relay logic that this would only activate if the 12 V batter is dead.

 

[Maquis]

Let's hope there's not some limbo state where the battery has enough charge to disable frunk access, but not run the car!

 

[DBC]

This is not an issue or two, this is serious business, aka "stranded" type of stuff. Plus this is a small sampling with multiple problems. That's not good. I expected some things like the PAAk figity, but this is becoming something more concerning. Sorry, just the way I am left feeling about this. The dead battery, power fault thing is kinda where I draw the line.

While it's true that 12v battery problems are "stranded" type of stuff, it's a fairly common problem. Might be a confluence of COVID related delays and very cold weather. Most of the other issues are connectivity related. AFAIK the only issue that seems concerning is one intermittent powertrain related hiccup.

That said, some people are better able to deal with issues than others. If you don't think you'll be able to tolerate this type of issue then by all means cancel your order. You may sleep better.

 

[dtbaker61]

short term fix might be wiring an AGM battery in parallel with the mfg 12v battery and leaving it in the frunk for the winter.... agm is not as sensitive to cold, and the extra capacity in the cold might help.

second option might be a little heating pad under the 12v battery

 

[rgparham]

I am not aware of any 12v lithium car batterys on the market right now. There are hurdles with charging 12v lithium in a car that would need to be worked out but it is supposed to better for overall charging since itll be the same composition of the HVB

Edit* I did find some but they are 600-800$ each. Doubt very much its lithium. Most likely AGM

Yes

 

[dtbaker61]

Yes

there are *lots* of lithium 12v batteries available with BMS boards built in for use in the Solar world. Not great for starter batteries, but just fine for 'storage'. All lithium is sensitive to cold however, and *should not* be charged when below freezing.

given that the 12v battery is in the Frunk, and doesn't have the environmental heating/cooling of the main battery, and since the factory 12v is lithium, I would suspect that if its really cold outside, the frunk is below freezing, and the 12v battery has sensors to tell it not to take a charge as long as frunk is below freezing..... it runs down, and bricks the whole system....

choices are:
- add a warming pad under 12v battery
- change 12v from Lithium to AGM

...lots of choices for AGM for less than $250 for 100ah, delivered.
https://www.renogy.com/deep-cycle-agm-battery-12-volt-100ah

 

[ChasingCoral]

Catching up on this thread here:

Strangely enough, I got this notice last night.

Very interesting the FordPass app indicated the 12v was charging. Was your Mach E connected to the EVSE at that time? If not, it shows yours was doing the right thing and charging the LVB off the HVB. When was yours built?

Has the root cause of the 12V drain been determined? I once had a brand new PHEV where I spent quite a bit if time setting up the car and programing the systems to my liking without the car running, and drained the 12volt to zero and had to get it jumped.

Ford is working on it right now and was working on it over the weekend. More once I get my post up.

When I first l got my 2017 Bolt, the 12V AGM battery died. Could jump start it, but it would not hold a charge. And this is in South Florida, where the only temps we worry about are high temps...

Turns out that GM had received a bad batch of these batteries. And they replaced them all.

The MME must have some sort of transport mode which shuts down the parasitic loads. If this was not enabled while being delivered, then it could be a reason why all these batteries are having problems.

There is discussion that the Mach E's 12v battery (LVB) is the issue or part of the issue. The long time between build and delivery is being discussed.

If I have this problem even once, I will install a connector in the frunk to connect a jump box. No way I am going to tear open a panel every time just to get to connector points! That needs corrected in the 2022 model.

My 2012 Volt has those jump connectors in the rear storage area. Never had to use them. In fact, I still have the original 12V battery in it!

I am not worried. This will all be taken car of by Ford. This is their flagship EV! They are not going to let it fail.....

Jim

The Mach E has little access panels in the left and right luggage compartment covers at the headlights. I definitely think there should be panels to access the + and - jump start connectors as well. Currently accessing those connectors requires removal of the rear and left luggage compartment covers.

I agree this will be taken care of by Ford. They are working hard right now to make this right.

I turned the car on this morning and the Power train fault disappeared from the dashboard and no longer appears in the Ford Pass App. I am going to keep an eye on it today. The temperature now is -18 outside, so it will be interesting to see what happens while I'm here at work. Praying it starts or Ford Roadside will be getting a call and straight to the dealer.

You should definitely report this to your dealer and to Ford.

Also i'm very curious how much that 'delayed' shipment had anything to do with some of these problems.

The delays of early builds and the QC checks at the Kansas Speedway may be part of this. I think most of the recent delays are just shipping capacity trying to catch up with the backlog of new cars made.

Anyone that has removed covers and recharged their battery, was it a deep cycle or short cycle high amp battery?

AGM starter battery. It lists voltage, amp hours, and CCA. Sorry, Marlin is in the shop or I'd take a picture for you.
Update, I had a photo of my battery on hand:

How many in this one thread have had this issue? geeze. Between this, the Easy Pass problem, the display whine, the PAAK problem and whatever else, I'm really wondering if I should hold off a while.,, I have to be honest and this is all kind of scary and leaning lemonish.

See @JamieGeek's response (next) and @kdryden99's after that.

It all depends on your tolerance for thse types of issues. This is a brand new car on a brand new platform completely designed ground up. There are bound to be an issue or two. Ford will get to the bottom of these and quickly: The Mach-E is their premier EV and they don't want any unhappy customers.

Also consider the "internet": When people start having issues they go searching for solutions on the internet and find forums such as these and post questions. This has a way of concentrating the issues in a forum and making them look more prevalent than they really are (granted in the case of the Mach-E many of the people were here already excitedly waiting for their car; in addition to that there have been just a few deliveries..wait to the deluge starts LOL). You may ask "where are the happy people?" well they are out driving their cars...

In all honesty these issues were to be expected. Lets give Ford time to resolve these. If you were expecting the cars to be 100% right off the bat I think that is unrealistic. I am happy that my car will only be arriving sometime in May/June/July so that these can be worked out by the time I take ownership since this will be my main car.

Ford is working very hard on these issues right now. We're at the bleeding edge. It's not a place some people are comfortable. You'll have to determine if you are comfortable being an innovator, waiting to be an early adopter, or later:

I posted this elsewhere - but wouldn't this work to get you both into the frunk and jump the battery? Not ideal but if you're concerned until something else can be be figured out:

Would something like this work in a backpack (many people carry purses / backpacks with them at all times)- just take it with you every time you leave the Mach-e? Not a wonderful solution but a solution?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BLM981K/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I think one of this would probably have been effective at bringing Marlin's LVB back up to the point where I could start him. I used a trickle charger. I didn't jump Marlin because I was fighting with issues of ice covering my other two vehicles:

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